When the revolution transformed into war Nikolay Yakubovych's status also changed. Previously, he was a centurion of Maidan's self-defense, but on May 2 he became a prisoner of war in Horlivka, Donetsk Oblast.
With the help of a colleague he was
released and became a negotiator to help other prisoners. He is now
also advising National Security and Defense Council Secretary Andriy
Parubiy, but has no official capacity. Yakubovych had previously
been an investigator at a police department in Belarus, but
immigrated to Ukraine in the mid-2000s with his Ukrainian wife.
Kyiv Post: How many people are
currently being held hostage by separatists, according to your
estimates?
Nikolay Yakubovych: In Luhansk it’s in
the order of 150, and in Donetsk and Horlivka there is also more than
100, probably close to 120. There are at least 20 people in Horlivka,
there are civic activists that the militants have started grabbing.
The same is happening in Donetsk. Horlivka is like a separate state,
they have their own management there, and the same is in Donetsk.
KP: Is there anyone who is keeping
up-to-date lists of prisoners?
NY: We’re constantly receiving
information via civil society, people on the ground when somebody
gets captured and pulled away.
KP: How many separatists and
mercenaries are held by the other side, by the Ukrainian government?
NY: There is a track record kept, but I
cannot tell you. The people who are taken, some of them are
investigated and then released, and the number changes constantly. At
the moment, there are more than 200 people arrested who are under
criminal investigation.
KP: Where are they held, in Kyiv or
in Donbas?
NY: Most of them are in Kyiv. Some of
them are in pre-trial detention in Dnipropetrovsk and Kharkiv region.
KP: How is the decision taken
whether to send them to Kyiv or not?
NY: There is a check conducted and
evidence collected of their involvement in the separatist actions. If
the person did not commit any crimes – if they are just ideological
supporters – naturally, they are released after a check and then
tracked in a certain way.
KP: Who takes decisions about the
exchange of prisoners and how is this decision taken?
NY: This is a very complex process, all
these procedures are now tied to the president. In other words, this
all goes through the president of Ukraine, through the administration
of the president. There is a certain staff that gets informed about
certain offers, which are then examined and a general decision taken.
KP: Do you know who is in charge of
this in the president’s administration?
NY: As far as I know, it’s (First
Deputy Head of the President’s Administration Henadiy) Zubkov.
KP: I talked to the wife of one of
the prisoners, Vasily Budiak, who has been held captive since May 2.
She said there was a plan to exchange a number of prisoners for a
certain Olga Kulygina, and then it was all halted by the president’s
administration. Why?
NY: There were certain details
(discovered) that I cannot talk about. Things change every day. Some
changes took place in Donetsk and Luhansk region, and then we got a
problem when (pilot Nadiya) Savchenko was taken out (of Ukraine to
Russia). There is a number of people who were taken captive, but we
cannot establish their location. We suspect they might have been
taken to Russia. We’re trying to find out.
KP: What sort of ranks are we
talking about?
NY: They are mostly civil society
representatives who supported the state. They’re civic activists.
Lately, we have also seen an increase in the number of businessmen
captured, the well-off people. DNR (Donetsk People’s Republic) is not
getting any charge from Russia. There is no ideology in this, unlike
at the beginning. Today, most of the kidnappings are to do with
mercantile interests of the so-called militia. There is a whole range
of gangs that basically extorts properties and money.
KP: How many people have you managed
to set free?
NY: By now, since I was held prisoner
(in early May), there have been more than 50 people. When I was
freed, that was sort of the early bird. With me, I took four
activists and then three others were released later in the evening by
the agreement of two sides in Malogrodovka (Donetsk region). They
were civic activists who disappeared, they were beaten cruelly and
needed medical help.
KP: Is it right that currently most
of the exchanges happen for a ransom?
NY: There are many cases of ransom. The
people-for-people exchange takes place in case they are of a certain
rank, the ones (separatists) are interested in among activists or
military. So, when they take in some people who are precious for the
state, they start to play with that type of exchange.
KP: What is so precious about Olga
Kulygina whom the separatists want to exchange for 15 people?
NY: She is a staff agent of FSB
(Russian security service). To be honest, I don’t know all of her
value for them, and in any case I don’t think she is in on any of the
really serious secrets. There may be someone’s personal interests
involved.
KP: I was told today that she is one
of the main ideologists of Russia’s plan to take over south and east
of Ukraine. That she was captured with flash cards and other pieces
of evidence.
NY: Yes, and she might have some sort
of information hidden and (the government) is not interested to have
this information go back to (militants).
KP: When you were held captive,
where were you held?
NY: First I was held inside the
regional administration building (in Donetsk), and then in the
television center. It was the Donetsk branch of Oplot organization (a
Kharkiv-based secessionist movement) who split off the Kharkiv
organization and started positioning themselves as the Russian
Orthodox Army. But their religious ideology is tied up to
neo-paganism. They call themselves Orthodox, but they wear Kolovtats
(swastika-like symbols). I asked them if they are Orthodox of the
Moscow Patriarchate, (and they said) there is a more ancient faith.
That Christian Orthodoxy is wrong, it arrived later, and so on.
KP: How were you treated?
NY: On the first
day there were threats of beatings and threats of executions. When
they started to realize that I was more interesting in terms of
exchange, of course their attitude softened and cooled off.
KP: How real were those threats? Do
they actually execute shootings?
NY: In my presence
there were no executions, but the threat does exist. There were two
cases that I saw when people who are not really taught to handle
firearms accidentally fired – anything can happen. Someone can just
come to show off, and unexpectedly they press a trigger of an
automatic rifle with a safety latch off.
KP: From what you have seen, are
these untrained people in the minority?
NY: At that time,
there were a lot of those people. By now, there may be some sorting
going on. But now they’re also trying to force young men off the
street into the militias, so it’s not excluded. But there is a core
of people who know well how to handle a gun, who are well trained and
drilled.
KP: One of your colleagues has told
Zerkalo Nedeli that the separatists only capture civil population and
soldiers, and shoot anyone who is a member of the National Guard or
volunteer battalions. Is this true?
NY: These are
mostly rumors. There have been several cases when guardsmen were
taken prisoners, but then they were either freed or exchanged. What I
know is that there have been cases when injured men were finished
off.
KP: How does an exchange of hostages
happen technically? Can you tell us about a recent case?
NY: I can’t talk
about recent cases, but I can tell you about my own case. First the
separatists demanded 12 people in exchange for me, then nine people,
then six, and then we reduced this number to three. These people were
all in detention, there was a decision to be taken on all of them to
let them out. There was a round table in Donetsk, negotiators
arrived, such as Vladimir Vladimirovich Ruban who has connections
with me through Maidan, also representatives of the militia arrived.
We communicated, talked, discussed all pros and cons. We gave
guarantees that those three people in the list. First they wanted to
swap people there and then, when they are brought over. But I needed
medical assistance because I was shot (in the foot), so the agreement
was based on honor. Me and Ruban gave our word of officers that we
will bring them those people, but we asked to have those released who
needed medical help. They agreed to let out me and four other men,
and when we arrived here (to Kyiv) we engaged in return of those
people identified by them.
KP: Who negotiates on the side of
separatists?
NY: At that time
it was their field commanders. But now the situation is more complex,
because on the side of Oplot it’s Leonid Baranov who deals with it,
so they have a negotiator. Also, the top commanders are more actively
involved, like (Denis) Pushilin.
KP: Whose initiative is it typically
to exchange hostages?
NY: We’re the ones
trying to show initiative because over here (on the Ukrainian side)
the detained citizens who face criminal charges are guarded, they are
provided with medical assistance, food and so on. Over there, people
are frequently kept in beastly conditions. For example, one man from
Yasynovata was detained and held in horrible conditions, it was a
miracle we pulled him out.
Roman Svitan,
adviser of Governor (Serhiy) Taruta, also needed medical help because
he got an infection in his blood when he was injured while being
captured. We had to make an effort to get him from one gang and move
to Horlivka, where he was relatively safer. Then our negotiator Ruban
transported him using transport provided.
KP: Who helped with transport?
NY: It was
Governor of (Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Ihor) Kolomoiskiy. He has helped
actively from the beginning to form special battalions. When we were
unable to form Donetsk-1 and Donetsk-2 battalions, they became part
of Dnipro battalion. Most of the equipment is provided by the state,
but carry mats and capes, and other necessities that are not a part
of the standard set – he helped.
KP: Why is there no official group
of negotiators to release prisoners?
NY: Because those
in the east of Ukraine are terrorists, illegal formations, and there
are no official negotiators conducted with them. This is why there is
no official group of negotiators. If this were officially an
international conflict, this official group would probably exist.
