‘They tried to counter our grass-roots level protest'
hout Kuchma have been camped out in tents on Maidan Nezalezhnosti since Dec. 15, protesting the President Leonid Kuchma’s alleged involvement in the disappearance of journalist Georgy Gongadze. The group’s main demand is the resignation of Kuchma and his inner-circle of ministers. They are also calling for an independent investigation into the murder of Gongadze.
Ukraine Without Kuchma led a 5,000-strong pack of protesters from Maidan to the Verkhovna Rada, and then on to the Presidential Administration on Dec. 19. The march proved effective: The next day, they got their date with Kuchma, who promised to meet virtually all of their demands besides the one that he resign.
Ukraine Without Kuchma is a conglomerate of right- and left-wing political factions. They are supported openly by the Socialist Party, the Communist Party, both Rukh parties, the Republican Party of Ukraine, the Christian Democratic Party of Ukraine and by the Sobor Party. Even the far-right-wing, anti-Russian and anti-Communist UNA-UNSO nationalist movement has joined the protest.
Socialist Party leader and Rada deputy Oleksandr Moroz, who first revealed the audio tapes tying Kuchma to the disappearance of Gongadze, is playing a big role in supporting and organizing the protest. But the group’s two leaders are Yury Lutsenko and Volodymyr Chemeris.
Chemeris is a member of the right-wing Ukrainian Republican Party and a veteran of the 1990 student hunger strike. Lutsenko is the editor of Hrani (www.grani.kiev.ua), an opposition online newsletter that claims to have been harassed by the government for political purposes
The Post interviewed Lutsenko in the evening of Dec. 19, in the wake of the big protest march.
Q. What are the demands of Ukraine Without Kuchma?
A. We are demanding:
1) Access to national television and radio for both our protesters and for the [Rada] deputies who met with SBU Major [Mykola] Melnychenko.
2) An independent investigation into journalist Georgy Gongadze’s disappearance.
3) The Rada’s approval of a series of laws that establish the procedure for both presidential impeachment and for special independent investigations.
4) The resignation of President Leonid Kuchma and his inner circle of ministers, including Interior Ministry chief Yury Kravchenko, State Security chief Leonid Derkach and State Customs chief Yury Solovkov.
Q. How would you characterize the makeup of Ukraine Without Kuchma?
A. I would like to stress that our protest is supported by every political group with the exception of the oligarch groups [editor’s note: the “oligarch” groups include the Social Democratic Party Ukraine (United), Regional Revival, Labor Ukraine and Green Party factions of parliament]. I would also like to stress that the government-orchestrated opposition tried to counter our grass-roots level protest. They tried to stir up violence during our march to the Rada and Presidential Administration by organizing separate, on-the-fly, meaningless protests along the path of our March. They did this in an attempt to put one side against the other in the hope of painting our protest as a violent, disorganized group. But they failed. We have remained disciplined and devoted to our cause.
Q. Did you achieve your goals during the march to the Rada and to the Presidential Administration?
A. Today, we took the first steps toward attaining our goals. We showed we were capable of gathering up to 10,000 citizens from various regions of Ukraine. Together we marched to the Rada, showed our strength and presented our demands to the Rada.
Unfortunately, the leadership of the Rada spit these demands back into the face of the citizens of Ukraine and didn’t give Volodymyr Chemeris, one of our representatives, the opportunity to speak to the parliament. The oligarch factions of parliament are responsible for blocking this initiative.
We believe this is a moment of truth with respect to our relations with the Rada. However, after we showed that our cause is backed by a large portion of the population of Ukraine, we were invited to meet with the first deputy head of the Presidential Administration, Oleh Dyomin.
We formally presented him with our demands. He responded by arranging a face-to-face meeting for us with Kuchma [on Dec. 20].
Upon Mr. Dyomin’s initiative, we also talked about the possibility a compromising on some of our demands.
Q. Are you willing to compromise on the resignation of Kuchma?
A. During our meeting at the Presidential Administration, we did come up with a structured means for compromise. I regret, for strategy purposes, that I cannot discuss it until our meeting with Kuchma. [Editor’s note: After their meeting on Dec. 20, the protesters indicated they were willing to drop their demand, providing Kuchma signed a law OK’ing impeachment procedures.]
But let me make it clear: We are proposing to the president that he not wait any longer to pass a procedures for impeachment [of the president]. We are also proposing that he not wait for the final results of the Gongadze case. He should take responsibility for the national political crisis in Ukraine by resigning today. Allow me to clarify. This is a political crisis that started even before the disappearance of Gongadze. Gongadze is merely a moment of truth, a catalyst that has led people at last to say that they will not accept the bandit group that is ruling our country any longer. They have realized that they must act.
Q. What are your next steps?
A. We have warned the Presidential Administration that this is the beginning. We told them that the Ukraine Without Kuchma protesters are willing to go on a full-fledged hunger strike that could lead to devastating consequences and that responsibility would fall upon the country’s leadership. We have succeeded today. We are confident that this is only the beginning.
