Yanukovych outraged at government’s decision on obligatory use of Ukrainian in schools’ everyday life

Just what country is this, Ukraine or Russia? Yanukovich should be proud of his Ukrainian heritage and language, or is he really Ukrainian at all? Oh, sorry, I forgot, he was born in Belloruss to Russian parents. Just another Kremlin lackey.

Another Kremlin lackey — whose Ukrainian may be better than your own. Why? Because he lives there, and he's actually learned the language. He was born in Zhukovka, Donetsk oblast, to a Belarusan father and a Ukrainian mother. His Russian sounds more like Ukrainian than anything you hear from Moscow or 'Peter. And if the Ukraine that you're imagining is something akin to an ethnically homogenous nation-state — it's time to reconsider. You cannot point to a single moment in history where that situation existed in what is now Ukraine. Not in the time of the Scythians, not under the Rus', not under the Golden Horde, not under Poland-Lithuania, not under Austro-Hungary, the Russian Empire, Poland, the Soviet Union, and not now.

That notion is not only historically inaccurate, it is in good measure an ideological invention — the sooner disposed of the better — because it remains a stumbling block that prevents the country from becoming a viable, modern state in which people wish to live.

Yanukovich can barely speak Russian correctly, let alone Ukrainian, he has about as much mastery of the Ukrainian language as my dog does. He obviously learned his language skills in prison. This Sovok dog should take the next train to Moskva and peddle his Russian language there, this is Ukraine, NOT Russia..

Another explanation of Yanukovych's success is his alleged secret cooperation with the KGB (which supposedly started during his imprisonment). Proponents of this version argue that as an ex-convict he couldn't enter the institute, travel to the West and later make a career unless being protected by some "shadow force" more powerful than a local MP. There is no documented proof for such allegations, either.

According to the Foreign Affairs Ministry of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych was the only ever-convicted prime minister in the world.

Yeah, the PROFFESOR most certainly has language skills..... LOL

In 2001, he graduated from the Ukrainian Academy of Foreign Trade as a Master of International Law. Later, Yanukovych was granted the titles of Doctor of Science and Professor. But later publication of his handwritten documents revealed that he is making numerous spelling mistakes. In particular, Yanukovych was unable to write his title, position and wife's name properly.

What is this Russian trying to do, suck Ukraine back to Russia? Can the government not return him to his homeland, the country he is so fond of? When people live in a "foreign" country, they must learn the language of that country. And they certainly cannot run for parliamant with a criminal record.

Don't forget this is the same guy who was begging Kuchma and Putin to massacre the peaceful Orange Revolution demonstrators!!! A bad and monstrous idea that was put on hold after warnings from USA President Bush through Colin Powell as reported in the leftist New York Times !

LOOKS LIKE THS IS THE LAST ROLL OF DICE FOR YUSHI AND HULIA...ADIEU MON AMI...leave UKRAINE TO TRUE UKRANIANS...RUS... of which YANUKOVYCH HAPPENED TO BE ONE...THAT IS UKRANIAN-RUS

This guy is a Russian monster whose only support is from the

Russian minority which is in Ukraine. Fortunately that minority is

not big enough to make this guy the President of Ukraine.

He may get into the second round in the Presidential elections,

but then he will certainly lose.

Actually, many who left the commie party joined the party of regions.

UNFORTUNATELY,

IF THE UKRAINIANS WILL NOT GET A CONSENSUS, THE RUSSIANS WILL BE BACK...

UKRAINIAN/RUS, YES CAN YOU GO BACK 1241, THE CAPITAL WAS KYIV NOT MOSCOW...

THE LITTLE DEMOCRACY THAT UKRAINE IS ENJOYING WILL BE GONE, BY THE WAY DO RUSSIA ALLOW TO SPEAK ANOTHER LANGUAGE?

IN RUSSIA THERE IS NOT MANY UKRAINIAN SCHOOLS, IN THE 19TH CENTURY UKRAINIAN WAS FORBIDDEN IN PRINTED FORM, NO NEWSPAPER, ETC,JUST FOLKLORIC SONGS WHICH SOME WERE CONSIDERED AS RUSSIAN...

RUSSIA HAS TO SHED ITS IMPERIALISM ATTITUDE, BUT THAT IS NOT TOMORROW... THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF REHABILITATING STALINE...

UKRAINIANS WILL THEN HAVE TO SEND SOLDIERS TO CHECHNYA AND SO ON...

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY HAVE A SENSIBLE LEADER, AND THERE IS A LOT OF POPULISM, OPPORTUNISM AROUND, AND UNTIL A NEW GENERATION DOES NOT COME UP, IT WILL BE HARD.

DEMOCRACY CAN BE BUILT ONLY ON SOME CONSENSUS, FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, LITTLE DISPARITY BETWEEN RICH AND POORS...

NOT EASY, BUT WHO KNOWS UKRAINIANS WILL WAKE UP SOME DA

I beg to differ. Ukrainian was banned by the kremlin before russian had grammer!

>> 1720. Peter I’s ukase banning the publication and printing of books in Ukrainian.

It began centuries earlier when Peter the First - I will not call him Great - decided to create an Empire by inventing the Myth of Russia. In order to turn his frozen back woods outposts into a credible empire, he needed a history, and a church to bless it.

Ukraine had all that -- so he conquered it. Ukrainian history became Russian history. The head of the Ukrainian Church was arrested, marched off to Moscow and declared to be to head of the Russian Church. Suddenly, Russia had an empire, a history and a church to bless it all.

The only problem was those pesky Ukrainians who just wouldn't cooperate and become Russian. That began a centuries long effort by Russia to destroy the Ukrainian nation, culture, and Ukrainian national identity.

>> 1722 When the Austrian monarchy made Galicia a province in 1772, Habsburg officials ***REALIZED*** that the local East Slavic ***PEOPLE WERE DISTINCT*** from BOTH Poles AND Russians. Their own name for themselves, Rusyny, was similar in sound to the German term for Russians, Russen. Austria ADOPTED the ethnonym Ruthenen (Ruthenians), and continued to use it officially until the empire fell apart in 1918.

Some 200 years ago and times prior to that, Ukrainians were usually referred to and known as rusyny (Ukrainian: русини, commonly translated as Ruthenians).

>> 1740’s The first Grammar of Russian Language was written by Vasily Adodurov in the 1740s, and a more influential one, by Mikhail Lomonosov in 1755.

>> 1753. Ban on the tuition in Ukrainian at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.

>> 1769. Ban {BY THE KREMLIN} on Ukrainian ABC books.

>> 1775. Destruction of the Zaporizka Sich and closure of Ukrainian schools at Cossack centres.

>> 1784 Church Slavonic, Greek, Rusyn, Latin, Polish, German and French are the languages of the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. The language of Kiev is a combination of all of the above.

>> 1800's Shevchenko's Кобзар is published in St. Petersburg. So is his Буквар. So is Pavlovsky's Граматика, Kulish's Записки and Чорна Рада. Kotliarevsky, Kvitka-Osnovianenko, Vovchok, Hrechulevych, Ukraiinka are also published. The monthly Основа is printed. Hulak-Artemovsky's Українcькe Beciлля, Hiч нa Iвaнa Kyпaлa, Запорожець за Дунаєм are performed. So are Lysenko's works in Ukrainian, on Ukrainian themes.

The truth is bad enough. Why embellish?

Since no one extends credit to a national genius solely on the basis of past iniquity and suffering — it might be useful to focus on the people who live and work and have families in Ukraine now — as they are now — rather than on how one might wish them to be.

Give them a reason nearer to 2009 than 1775 to value what it is to be Ukrainian.

>> 1784. Only “Pure Russian” is allowed {BY THE KREMLIN} as the language of instruction at the Kyiv Religious Academy. {BEFORE THE MOSKALI CAME, UKRAINIAN WAS THE LANGUAGE OF KIEV}

>> 1800’s The resurgence of Ukrainian national consciousness in the nineteenth century was fostered by a renewed interest among intellectuals in Ukrainian history, culture, and language and the founding of many scholarly, cultural, and social societies. The Russian government responded by harassing, imprisoning, and exiling leading Ukrainian intellectuals. Ukrainian academic and social societies were disbanded. Publications, plays, and concerts in Ukrainian were forbidden. Finally, the existence of a Ukrainian language and nationality was officially denied. Nevertheless, a Ukrainian national movement in the Russian Empire persisted, spurred partially by developments in western Ukraine, where Ukrainians in the more liberal Austrian Empire had far greater freedom to develop their culture and language.

this comment has some merit..where it dismally flops is in its emphasis of negative conototation of everything russian...just like 'fucken' poles and their 'fucken' culture like no one else has culture....does anybody honestly believe that poles would not like re-claim the western ukraine...a pie in the sky...yes, that's unlikely but given an oportunity a 'fucken' pole would jump....so there you are...dismembered ukraine would be preferable to pole than united or the whole ukrainian be it russian dominated or independent....catholic fascists in poland under kacyz bros would ensure that independent freedom loving ukraines get into the queue behind them to get the pop's blessing...so what's the choice...ignore 10-15% fucken servile pseudo western ukranian poles and continure as INDEPENEDENT UKRAINIAN-RUS state.

If he didn't have so much trouble trying to speak Ukrainian, perhaps he wouldn't say anything. How is a country to develop a national identity if the leaders won't learn their national language?

he doesnt have any trouble speaking ukrainian. you are just un informed and diluded thats it. he speaks ukrainian and some pro-russian people have already given up hopes on him. he has changed to please the nationalists of ukraine in order to get votes. he even started speaking russian with ukranian pronounciation of letter 'g' as 'h' which is wrong in russian.

Yanukovych's pronunciation isn't wrong — it's a throwback to the common Eastern Slavic language — it just isn't the way French-influenced St. Petersburg Russian developed. That's why it's still improper in Russian to pronounce Бог "Bog" and Господи "Gospodi."

I cant understand why non ukranians are putting the noses in our business. I mean you people have never lived in ukraine, you dont even know what a normal ukranian thinks and feels. all these stupid comments like 'russia is trying to pull ukraine back in russia' this is garbage. Who are they to judge?? who are you people top judge? what ever russia and ukraine are doing its our business not YOURS

Because in a civilized society (unlike the one the kremlin runs) people are able to speak their minds and express their views freely.... Have you heard the news that Russia has recently passed legislation that allows them to invade a country for "insulting the dignity of Russian citizens OR RUSSIAN SPEAKERS" abroad?.. Ha, ha, ha, As if any creature who allows itself to be governed by tyrants had any dignity to insult. Its an Oxymoron.

Dear LUC OLIOP,

You also stated, " JUST FOLKLORIC SONGS ", but the kremlin tried to stop and destroy Ukrainian songs also! This continues my comment below.

>> 1825 Modern Russian is sometimes said to begin with Pushkin.

From 1840 on the term "Little Rus" for Ukrayina and "Malorosy" for Ukrainians began to fall out of fashion. In the 1880s and 1900s, the popularity of the ethnonym Ukrainian spread and the term "Ukraine" became a substitute for "Ruthenia" among the Ruthenian/Ukrainian population of the Russian Empire. In time the term "Ruthenian" became restricted to western Ukraine, an area then part of the Austro-Hungarian state.

>> 1863. Ban on printing any books in Ukrainian except for “belles-lettres.”

>> 1866. “Strict surveillance” over Ukrainian belles-lettres is introduced.

>> 1876. Ban {BY THE KREMLIN} on importing or bringing from abroad any books “in the Small-Russian dialect”; theatrical plays in Ukrainian, public recitals in Ukrainian and even the texts in Ukrainian accompanying the music notes are banned.

In 1876 however, with the publication of the Ems Ukaz stage performances by kobzars and bandurists were officially banned. Paragraph 4 of the decree was specifically aimed at preventing all music, including ethnographic performances in the Ukrainian language. As a result blind professional musicians such as the kobzars turned to the street for their sustenance.

The bandurists sang and recited folk oral literature. The sum of oral works, both poetry and prose, which are produced usually by anonymous authors and are preserved in the people's memory for a long time by being passed on orally from generation to generation. Ukrainian folk oral literature has its distinctive artistic qualities, its unique poetic devices—metaphors, similes, epithets, and symbolism.

>> 1895 Ban {BY THE KREMLIN} on children’s books in Ukrainian.

>> 1896 The flag of Russia is a tricolour of three equal horizontal fields, white on the top, blue in the middle and red on the bottom. The flag was first used as an ensign for merchant and war ships and only became official in 1896.

>> 1930’s In the 1930's the authentic kobzar tradition of wandering musicians in Ukraine came to an end; there was also a wave of arrests of bandurists in the Kuban. Many of these arrested bandurists received relatively light sentences of 5-10 years camp detentions or exile, usually in Siberia. Also, most of the Ukrainian bandurists were killed!

The Kuban area also suffered HOLODOMOR because, in 1929, 55+% of the area was Ukrainian. The so-called Russians who died in the Kuban and Lower Volga were almost entirely Ukrainians. Entire regions of Ukraine were depopulated and Ukrainians were replaced by Russians.

Throughout the 1930s bandurists were constantly being arrested and taken off for questioning which may have lasted some months. Many were constantly harassed. Whereas in the early 1930s those incriminated received relatively light sentences of 2-5 years the period starting with 1937-38 the sentences were often fatal and immediate - death by shooting.

>> 1927 The Central Committee in the kremlin decreed that Russian was a special language within the Soviet Union.

>> 1928 Restrictions came into force that directly affected the lifestyle of the traditional kobzars, and stopped them from traveling without a passport and performing without a license. Restrictions were also placed on accommodations that were not registered and also on manufacturing or making banduras without a license.

Addendum to prior comment:

In 1937-38 large numbers of bandurists were executed. Documents have survived of the many individual executions of bandurists and kobzars of this period. So far the documentation of 41 bandurists sentenced to be shot have been found with documents attesting to approximately 100 receiving sentences of between 10-17 years. Often those that were arrested were often tortured to obtain a confession. Sentences were pronounced by a Troika and were dealt out swiftly within hours or days of the hearing. The families of those that were executed were often told that the bandurist had been sent to a camp without the right to correspond.

Many bandurists and kobzars were persecuted by the authorities that controlled Ukraine at various times because of the association of the bandura to the Cossack past and aspects of Ukrainian history which the kobzars would glorify in their songs and epics.

Kobzars were usually blind musicians and poets. When the kremlin exterminated {PRONOUNCED - GENOCIDE} them, the kremlin was also destroying the culture, traditions, and history of the Ukrainian people.

It is hard to establish the exact number of bandurists who were persecuted in various ways. As more information has been coming to light, the number of musicians who were arrested, interned or executed has continued to rise. It is unmatched in any other folk music or bardic tradition in Europe.

>> 1939-41 The kremlin closes or destroys Ukrainian churches in Western UKRAINE and kills most of the UKRAINIAN priests, and replaces the pulpits with KGB, to shrive the Ukrainian people.

Victor Yanukovich, a repeated candidate for the presidency of Ukraine, is a convicted criminal, having been sentenced to three years in prison for robbery in 1967. No sooner was he released than in 1970 he was convicted of assault and battery in 1970 and sentenced to two years in prison. In 1978 he was prosecuted a third time, but this time acquitted. Despite this, he twice received the official endorsement of Russian president Vladimir Putin and the Russian Duma.

Yanukovich became a member of the Communist Party in 1980.

An electrician by training, he does not have a genuine undergraduate diploma but rather only a degree he obtained through a correspondence school. He then obtained various higher degrees through vague periods of study. His knowledge of the Ukrainian language is extremely poor and his handwritten documents on record are full of linguistic errors.Yanukovich is closely linked to organized crime, and he has also been linked to the Russian KGB as a mole.

He was able come to power, doing so only by making a disgustling alliance with the Communist Party that utterly devastated Ukraine over the last few decades, and by using the illicit power of the Russian state (which poisoned his rival when he last ran for office) to back him.

And let there be no misunderstanding: Yanukovich cannot govern Ukraine except by brute force assisted from Moscow, tantamount to an invasion by Russian forces. The Ukrainians have already shown that, unlike Russians, they are willing to trudge into the street and risk their lives for freedom and democracy, and this vile little man cannot stand those forces down by any means other than violence such as we have seen in Belarus. Will the Ukrainians allow Ukraine to degenerate into a new Belarus?

Out of sheer curiosity, which speeches of "this vile little man" in either Russian or Ukrainian have you listened to in order to form your opinion; and which PoR policy papers have you waded through in order to understand that a Ukrainian electorate voting for Yanukovych is "tantamount to an invasion by Russian forces"? In other words, how is it that you come to the conclusion that Ukrainians, "willing to trudge into the street and risk their lives for freedom and democracy" cannot be permitted to exercise that freedom in their own democracy to vote for Yanukovych?

Dear krivonic.

I never said. * cannot be permitted to exercise that freedom in their own democracy to vote for Yanukovych? *

After President Yushchenko came to power, democracy has been able to flower. After all, there are many useful idiots in Ukraine that voted, and will vote, for yanykovich!

So much for the rhetoric and false statements that the use of Russian is not being discriminated against. It clearly is. Ukraine's constitution is supposed to protect the right of use of Russian but clearly the authorities do not respect or uphold Ukraine's constitutional rights.

Yanukovycvh should lodge an appeal in Ukraine's Constitutional Court and if that fails appeal to the European Court of Humans Rights against this policy.

Article 10

The state language of Ukraine is the Ukrainian language.

The State ensures the comprehensive development and functioning of the Ukrainian language in all spheres of social life throughout the entire territory of Ukraine.

***

In Ukraine, the free development, use and protection of Russian, and other languages of national minorities of Ukraine, is guaranteed.

***

The State promotes the learning of languages of international communication.

The use of languages in Ukraine is guaranteed by the Constitution of Ukraine and is determined by l

QUOTE

"In Ukraine, the free development, use and protection of Russian, and other languages of national minorities of Ukraine, is guaranteed."

Yushchenko, as guarantor for the observance of the Constitution of Ukraine and human and citizens' rights and freedoms, SHOULD BE ACTING TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF UKRAINE CITIZENS AND UKRAINE'S CONSTITUTION..

Yushenko swore and oath to "protect the rights and freedoms of citizens, to abide by the Constitution of Ukraine and the laws of Ukraine"

ANOTHER REASON WHY YUSHCHENKO SHOULD NOT HOLD THE POSITION OF HEAD OF STATE

Yuschenko is a patriot and you my dear are NOT

Yushchenko does not abide by the rule of law He turns a selective blind eye to those issues he does not support. Ukraine needs a head of state who will truly represent all of Ukraine not just 2.6%

No one is preventing anyone from using Russian, in fact, most news journals, tv programs and media are in Russian, just watch Shuster.

remember yanukovych never finish even one semester of university and it will be impossibe for him to speak fluent ukrainian. he has to be against anything condemning the russian lanquage the only language he can understand. it the cravest mistake in the history of ukraine to forget the most evil dictator and evil people in ukriane today is what yanukovich stands for and to return to the dark ages is reality ukraine must face once again this election .... the sadest part , ukrainians fail to realize is the real central issue of this upcoming election it is the black darkest of yanukovich versus the white light yulia will bring to ukriane once yushchenko and yanukovuch are finallly out the way stopping every positive yulia has tried to grow for ukraine future. bush is a angel compared to the darkest yanukovich brings to the stage. when he will be scorned by the international community. ukriane ecomony will collaspe and he will take all the rights away of the citizens

YANUKOVYCH IS A REAL GENTELEMAN...YUSHI and HULIA 10% for me, CAN NOT COMPARE TO YANUKOVYCH...wasn't YUSHI THE NATIONAL BANK GOVERNOR...does it not suggest that the guy is so fucken deep into 10% for me and that his wife has syphoned millions into good old YANKEE DOODLE STATE, where he has already bought a palace...yes a palace 20 rooms, not a kiyv apartment....as for hulia SHE IS LOST IN TIME...A TYPICAL WOMAN CANNOT GIVE UP THE LUCRE...YES SHE MADE HER MILLIONS, BUT MILLIONS ARE TO BE MADE....danny boy, hulia is singing, the money is in the pipes...AND YET, EVERYBODY ATTACKS YANUKOVYCH...WHO IS BY ALL ACCOUNTS A DECENT MEASURED AND AN UKRANIAN PATRIOT...JUST BECAUSE HE LIKES HIS PEOPLE, YES UKRAINANS, HE DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE PILORED BY LACKEY OF PSEUDO CATHOLIC UKRANIAN ESTABLISHMENT THAT WOULD LIKE NOTHING BETTER THAN LICK THE BACKSIDE OF THE POP AND the good old USA.

There's a wack job born every minute..LOL

He is not a "wack job"; he is a typical kremlin propagandist!

these comment have some merit..where they dismally flop are in their emphasis of negative conototation of everything russian...just like 'fucken' poles and their 'fucken' culture like no one else has culture....does anybody honestly believe that poles would not like re-claim the western ukraine...a pie in the sky...yes, that's unlikely but given an oportunity a 'fucken' pole would jump....so there you are...dismembered ukraine would be preferable to pole than united or the whole ukrainian be it russian dominated or independent....catholic fascists in poland under kacyz bros would ensure that independent freedom loving ukraines get into the queue behind them to get the pop's blessing...so what's the choice...ignore 10-15% fucken servile pseudo western ukranian poles and continure as INDEPENEDENT UKRAINIAN-RUS state.

I didn't know that KYIV POST allows such "fucken" language as exhibited by the the cretin above who suffers from megalo-maniac fantasy and calls himself "UKRAINE-RUS" -this guy needs help ( I wonder if he's wearing a Napolean costume?) and Kyiv Post should clean up this "fucken language" ...yes this answer and the profanity above. Please FLAG us!

oh my, my, my... how all of a sudden we, DELIBERATELY INTELLECTUAL CRETINS get touchy, feely ...whose fault is it, if someone wants to be, act and generally behave like a cretin deliberately. Yes, some people may suffered at the hands of RUSSIAN, but to act and be in a paranoid state about RUSSIA, RUSSIAN LANGUAGE AND RUSSIAN CULTURE borders on the lunacy; especially if it is your shared culture and people for at least 1000 YEARS. TO DENY THE UNBROKEN BOND B/W URKANIANS AND RUSSIANS IS AKIN TO THE WORST FORM OF INTELLECTUAL CRETENISM, which is unfortunately practised by some BANDERA RIGHT-WING AND LOOPY PSEUDO LOST CATHOLIC RITES SOULS - let god help them - to restore the greater poland...THERE IS NO GREATER UKRAINE...IF YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT KYCZS BROS ARE DOING, THEN YOU NEED COCA-BOTTLE GLASSES...poor, misguided UKRAINE'S patriot from LIV OR IS THAT IVANO-FRANKESTAIN ENCLAVE...get a life

Hrushevsky, Mikhailo, 1866–1934, Ukrainian historian and statesman. Hrushevsky's monumental History of Ukraine (10 vol., 1899–1937) covers the period to 1658. Other works include A History of Ukraine (tr. 1941) and History of Ukrainian Literature (5 vol., 1922–27). Hrushevsky argued that the period of the Kievan state (10th–13th cent.) belonged to Ukraine only, thus repudiating the Russian nationalist tradition that traced the history of Russia from ancient Kiev. He became president of the republic of Ukraine on its proclamation in Jan., 1918. After the German occupation of Ukraine, he fled (1918) to Austria, returning in 1924. In 1930 he was exiled from Kiev by the Soviet authorities.

Many believe that Hrushevsky was poisoned by the NKVD and I do not find that scenario to be very farfetched, knowing as we do all the men who were assassinated on the orders of Stalin, including Rebet, Petlyura and Bandera.

Most of the world is ignorant of the Ukrainian side of history because of the effectiveness of the Russian propaganda machine, so it should come as no surprise that the view expressed is widely believed.

Dear I am Russian ,

If you read about the demographics of the russian language on this planet, you will discover that in a few years, the russian language will see that there were 100% more people speaking russian twenty (20) years ago. Why would anybody want to learn {OR SPEAK} the dying russian language?

for a simple reason that CRETINS would not impose their SICK MONOSYLLABIC GUTTURAL TONES on a superior product - RUSSIAN LANGUAGE

Dear Les,

There are 46 million Ukrainians, (about 6 million fewer than the year of Independence). Just over half of the population regularly uses Ukrainian in the home, fewer in business life. The birth rate is among the lowest in Europe, while the mortality rate is staggeringly high. The suicide rate is highest among teenagers from 13-17 years old. Alcoholism, chronic despair, child abandonment and social dislocation are pervasive problems; and narcotics abuse and AIDS rates never cease to rise. It matters very little to the Internat kids in Central Ukraine that many of these statistics are worse in parts of Russia — nor should that be a cause for rejoicing.

Russia is in demographic decline — and the Russian language in the near abroad is set to shrink by over half in the next 10 years, if current trends continue. But the "dying Russian" language still has 160-odd million more speakers than Ukrainian — and if birth and mortality rates in Ukraine stay where they are — we go first.

oh my, my, my... how all of a sudden we - let me call me, DELIBERATELY INTELLECTUAL CRETIN get touchy, feely ...whose fault is it, if someone wants to act, be and generally behave like a cretin. Yes, some people may suffered at the hands of RUSSIAN and have so RUSSIANS themselves, but to act and be in a paranoid state about RUSSIA, RUSSIAN LANGUAGE AND RUSSIAN CULTURE borders on the lunacy; especially if it is your shared culture and people for at least 1000 YEARS. TO DENY THE UNBROKEN BOND BETWEEN URKANIANS AND RUSSIANS IS AKIN TO THE WORST FORM OF INTELLECTUAL CRETENISM, which is unfortunately practised by some BANDERA RIGHT-WING AND LOOPY PSEUDO LOST CATHOLIC RITES SOULS - let god help them - to be used to restore the greater poland...THERE IS NO GREATER UKRAINE...IF YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT KYCZS BROS ARE DOING, THEN YOU NEED COCA-BOTTLE GLASSES...poor, misguided UKRAINES sod-patriot from LIV OR IS THAT IVANO-FRANKESTAIN ENCLAVE...get a life

Looks like someone doesn't know their history, only Russian propaganda.

When Ukraine-Kyivan Rus' ruled over the Finno-Ugric tribes of present

day European Russia, they received civilization and a Christian culture

from Kyiv. After the collapse of Kyivan Rus', Muscovia, under Mongol

tutelage, became an autocratic state which has only changed color, but

not essence. Russia has a long way to go to become a modern nation

and Ukraine needs to do whatever is necessary to stay out of Russia's

hegemonistic designs. The Russians living in Ukraine who do not

want to become good Ukrainian citizens and learn to use Ukrainian

always have the option of going back to their home country, no one is

keeping them in Ukraine. The Russians should just get over hating

the Ukrainian people, whom they have tried to destroy through GENOCIDE,

both physical and cultural, and learn to live with them as a neighbor

state which they have learned to do with the Balts, Poles and Chinese.

is there anything else to add to this diatribe?...me think no...sick catholic bundera fasctis puppies are a good and ample example of what they represent and who they are...let them expound their sick, perverted view of UKRANIAN history and its people...noone else is so stupid...a sad, deranged and rabid lot...

>>1940’s KGB dress up as Banderivtzi, and kill Ukrainian people; and then the kremlin can issue another press release – Nazi Bandera kills Ukrainians.

Following the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact pact of 1939, the Soviet Army entered and established military bases in the Baltic states which were granted after USSR had threatened the three countries with military invasion. In June 1940, the Red Army occupied the whole territory of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, and installed new, pro-Soviet governments in all three countries. Following rigged elections, in which only pro-communist candidates were allowed to run, the newly "elected" parliaments of the three countries formally applied to "join" the USSR in August 1940 and were annexed into it as the Estonian SSR, the Latvian SSR, and the Lithuanian SSR.

>> 1941 Ukrainians are targeted and killed by the Nazis also.

Bandera’s followers argued that the Nazis had crushed Ukrainian independence and that many members of the OUN-B had been arrested, deported to concentration camps or shot. Members of Bandera’s underground cited how Stepan Bandera was currently confined at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp, his two brothers had been imprisoned (and later executed) in the Auschwitz concentration camp and other family members had been arrested and shot in the outskirts of Lviv.

>> 1943 The kremlin allows the moskali Orthodox Church to reopen to assist them in the war, and the KGB are given pulpits to stand on, and work as priests, and shrive the Ukrainian people.

>> 1945 Yalta agreement. Key points of the meeting are as follows: Citizens of the Soviet Union and of Yugoslavia were to be handed over to their respective countries, regardless of their consent.

There were two and a half to three million (2,500,000 – 3,000,000) Ukrainian Untermenschen OST-Arbeiters that were taken from Ukraine, by the Nazis, to work in Germany. Also, many Ukrainians were in the German concentration camps, and there were Ukrainian POW’s too. When the allies gave the Ukrainians to the KGB handlers from the kremlin, many were shot or hung. Most of the rest were loaded into cattle cars and transported east. Unfortunately, the trains did not stop before the borders of Eastern Ukraine; instead, the trains went directly to the gulags, because of the orders from the kremlin {PROUNOUNCED GENOCIDE} . During the cold winter months, about 50 % of the Ukrainians died during transport to the gulags.

Ukraine lost one in four of its population during the Second World War, the largest losses of any country and about 20% of the total deaths.

This guy is an idiot.

Using your own native language in schools and every day life is an absurdity?

This guy ought to be locked up in a looney bin.

hear..hear..hear..not just an idiot...but not LESS than a MISGUIDED sick PUPPY like his bandera and yushi USA rabid followers trom THE WEST TURNIP IVANO-FRENKESTEIN LOW-LIV AREA OF THE PLANET MARS...totally wacky anti-semites and anti-YATSY rabble that will end up at the bottom of the human heap and may IT BE SAID, SO JUSTLY DESERVED...must be the air in ZITOMIR-LIV-TURNIP-IVANOFRANKESTEIN valley of the ILL-BRED polish-NAZI tiny minority and their catholica-DESCENDANTS

Dear Кривоніс,

Please read the Ukrainian Encyclopedia before you post your silly comments. Your soviet encyclopedia is outdated .

Strangely, I don't imagine that I would have met you among the editing staff in Danylo's office off Huron & Sussex while the Encyclopedia was being edited. I was there.

Please read the Ukrainian Encyclopedia again, without inserting ideology where none exists — which is rather more the practice of polemics than useful to the construction of a viable and prosperous Ukrainian state.

Ukraine is not what any ideology imagines she is; Ukraine never was what ideology pretends; and she will never be what ideology would make her.

Ideology is inhuman. This is one thing Ukrainians ought better to understand than most. Those who insist on seeing in the collapse of the Soviet Union a vindication of a Ukrainian national ideology over another miss the point. It is the example of the collapse of the human spirit yoked to any ideology.

Insisting that Ukrainians must live their lives as parts of a paradigm rather than as human beings — will finish the nation.

'Україна irredenta' is an elegy.

I forgot to append my 'nom de guerre' to what I wrote above — Кривоніс.

OH HOW I LOVE YOU CENSORISTA...POWER SEEMS TO BE OPIUM OF PSEUDO WESTERN UKRANIAN-POLISH ZEALOTS...BAN ANYONE OR ANYTHING THAT MAY SOUND SENSIBEL...i suppose this is bandera, catholic-polish FALANGA=FIFTH COLUMN, and kiss the popes arse version of UKRANIAN ORANGE DEMOCARCY led by puppet YUSHI...well let it be on your conscience 2 bob or 5% self-appointed beares of a UKRANINA DEOMO-SOCIALST fascists in the western liv-ivanofrenkestein carpathia

KGB drivel. Today everyone knows what the Russian savages did in Ukraine.

The Genocide, the mass murders, the deportations to Siberia, etc..

Morons like you prove the point that Russia is still a savage country run by

KGB Savages. Even the Americans can see through the Russian propaganda.

Too bad McCain didn't win the election to protect Western Europe from the still

blood thirsty Russian savages. There would be missiles pointing down your throats

if you dared to attack Western Europe.

Your post more closely resembles 'KGB drivel' in tone and intention than does the post against which it is directed. The point is to alienate people and to create a climate in which reasonable and rational discussion cannot occur. This is fundamental to a system of control.

Russians are not 'morons' and they are not 'bloodthirsty savages.'

One can discover this by meeting with them, speaking with them, eating and drinking with them, learning their language, reading their literature, appreciating their arts, acknowledging their contributions in the fields of science, mathematics, physics. There is a very direct, though much-abused link between Ukrainians and Russians. Denying it is nonsense — just as overplaying its importance is.

The point isn't what has happened — the point is what Ukrainians wish to happen now. As is apparent in poll after poll, though Ukrainians have a high regard for Russians, they do not wish to follow Yedinaya Rossiya.

That is why provocation follows.

...a very erudite view which shows that a measured, well-disposed and good natured attitude among the brothers, UKRANIANS-RUS, will bring this sick right-wing nazi propaganda from LIV AND IVANO-FREKENSTEIN to its knees..me have nothing more to say or add...

Tell that to the Chechens.

Tell that to the Estonians.

Tell that to the Poles.

Tell that to the MILLIONS of Ukrainians that were murdered in the 20th century.

They will all laugh at you.

Which is why it is useful to remember that we are living in the 21st.

Ukrainian should be used in Ukrainian schools. The only time Russian, or any other language other than that of Ukrainian, should be in the classroom is when it's a language course. But in ever other class Ukrainian should be used. And the government of UKRAINE should speak/write/use the UKRAINIAN language.

The law says something different. And inasmuch as the dilemmas of Ukraine are tied heart and soul to the practice of undermining, ignoring and avoiding the law — this might be a good place to start practicing it.

If what is written into law is subject to arbitrariness and whim, you cannot build consensus. If no consensus among individuals exists, you do not have a nation. If you do not have a nation, there is no need for a state.

The awful hurry to turn the fragmentation of the Soviet Union into a national victory at the cost of those who felt the shock of separation the keenest is the surest guarantor that Ukraine ceases to exist.

There isn't a rational position that can deny a role for Russian in Ukraine.

Better by far to build a paradise than try to convince people that the condition they lived in before 1991 — when people had work, salaries, pensions, health care and a more-or-less bearable measure of misery — was hell.

Yup, that is the way it is in most countries of the world, including Russia.

Unfortunately that is not the way the Russians want it in Ukraine.

I In the US, the scales of justice were eventually (and rightfully) tipped in favor of African descendants who were discriminated against for centuries. In Ukraine, where Ukrainians (and the Ukrainian language), were discriminated against for so long, it seems to be very difficult for Russian speakers to understand this concept of tipping the scales of justice to undo decades, if not centuries, of injustice and vile attempt, through Moscow's intervention, to squeeze the Ukrainian language out of existence.

Should Ukrainian just forget about this historical tragedy? Or should they attempt to reverse the language trend of the last 80 years?

Ukrainians should respect the laws that the Rada promulgates and the Conventions that the Ukrainian President signs. In respect of the Russian language, these laws are unambiguous. Russian speakers (most of whom are Ukrainian) in Ukraine need to feel they have a stake in the future of the country rather than another millstone around their necks.

A quick glance at the ski hill that is the demographic trend in Ukraine is the only argument that carries any weight now — because within 40 years, the nation falls off a cliff. The country cannot afford the alienation of a single citizen. The 13-17 year-olds who are taking their lives in record numbers are entire families lost. The children sold into prostitution are parents lost. The young men and women who succumb to social dislocation, chronic alcoholism, drug abuse, AIDS, do irreparable harm to themselves and wound the nation.

This is the result of little under a century of ideology.

It isn't a matter of the WRONG ideology — it is the matter with an ideological approach nakedly incompatible with the being whose spirit it seeks to quell.

An ideology, by definition, REQUIRES oppressors and oppressed. It masquerades as revealed knowledge with its own articles of faith, colouring the initiate's entire view of the world and the processes within it. It cannot come to terms with the imperfect nature of man, so it seeks to cast living, breathing men and women into a mold. The usefulness of men and women is measured according to what role they play in the pantheon of oppressors and the oppressed.

What Shevchenko Day in any Народний Дім fails to laud the members of Sts. Cyril & Methodius because they suffered under the Tsar? What Shevchenko Day in any Народний Дім cites the Society's open letter to Russians, Poles, Belarussians, Bulgarians, Serbs, and Ukrainians — written in Russian — that proposes unification in a pan-slavic republic?

The enemy of ideology is Truth.

In other words, Ukrainian nationalist ideology is not what it pretends to be. It is not the daughter of a Ukrainian tradition that dates back through the mists of time to the glory of Rus'. It is rather, the step-child of late 19th and early 20th century national ideology, forced to contort history and omit uncomfortable details in the lives of its heroes and villains when they show themselves to be human.

Just as it is a good and necessary thing to bury the 19th-20th century Marxist-Leninist ideology that visited misery on Ukraine; so to it is good and necessary to bury the 19th-20th century nationalist ideology into which some would breathe new life — and for the same reason.

They are lies.

this is ...monstoruous comparison...i do not see american negros pushing the introduction of AFRICAN -BANTU languages inin everyday life...but if you think that is appropriate for AMERICCAN NEGROES TO SPEAK BANTU...fine...JUST GET YOUR HEAD THAT NOONE, I REPEAT NOONE, DENIGRATES THE UKRANIAN LANGUAGE, CULTURE AND PEOPLE AS MUCH AS THE RIGHT WING, THE USA ARSE LICKING PRESIDENT yushi..

this is ...monstoruous comparison...i do not see american negros pushing for the introduction of AFRICAN -BANTU languages in everyday life...but if you think that is appropriate for AMERICCAN NEGROES TO SPEAK BANTU...fine...JUST GET YOUR HEAD THAT NOONE, I REPEAT NOONE, DENIGRATES THE UKRANIAN LANGUAGE, CULTURE AND PEOPLE AS MUCH AS THE RIGHT WING, THE USA ARSE LICKING PRESIDENT yushi..

Are you an orphan from the insane asylum?

Ukraine — population 45,994,288

Orphans, Children (aged 0–17) orphaned due to all causes, 2007, estimate (thousands)

1000

_____

Russian Federation — population: 140,702,096

Orphans, Children (aged 0–17) orphaned due to all causes, 2007, estimate (thousands)

4000

_____

Germany — population 82,369,552

Orphans, Children (aged 0–17) orphaned due to all causes, 2007, estimate (thousands)

540

_____

It's possible.

Isn't it interesting that when Ukrainians express a love for their ancient language

and culture, which the Russians tried to eradicate during their occupation of

Ukraine, the Russians call it extreme right wing nationalism, yet they excuse their

own historical oppression of the nations that they ruled and tried to obliterate

using mass murder and cultural and linguistic ethnocide as something that should

just be overlooked and no reparations paid to those whom they so hatefully treated.

The Germans paid reparations to the Jews for their crimes against them; when will the

Russians start to pay reparations to their neighbors against whom they

committed such heinous crimes as Genocide and ethnocide? These Russian

crimes against humanity must be addressed by the world community.

It is also time for Russia to just stop interferring in the internal affairs of its neighbors

and learn how to treat others with the respect that they themselves so desparately crave.

Interesting? Not particularly - they're both sides of the same coin. The closest thing to classic fascism in Europe today are the Yedinoros power verticals in the Russian Federation. The second-closest thing to fascism are the nationalist movements in the Eastern Europe — Hungarian, Romanian, Polish, Ukrainian. The country has a chance to avoid both death sentences — and the overwhelming majority of citizens have repeatedly and unequivocally affirmed their intention to do so. This is why the conversation is increasingly shrill, as both sides attempt to radicalize the population.

Since Ukrainians composed 37% of the Red Army in June, 1943, and participated in the forced migrations of Poles, Romanians, Tatars, Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks and Germans (to say nothing of ethnic Ukrainians) which set the borders of the modern state, I propose that Russian reparations occur concurrently with those paid to Soviet victims by the successor state of the Ukrainian S.S.R..

Alternately, we could focus on the things that will ensure that Ukrainians prosper, wish to, and CAN raise families in the country today — rather than working as slaves in onion fields in Italy or as prostitutes in Istanbul — and rather than focusing on how unjust it is that Peter the Great's erstwhile ally, Ivan Mazepa lost at the Battle of Poltava.

Little things — like stable employment, the rule of law, decent healthcare, reasonable pensions, and the confidence that anything one builds with one's own hands cannot be taken away by the nephew of the prosecutor-general, backed up by freelance muscle from the SBU — because it caught his mistress' eye as they drove by.

So much for the rhetoric and false statements that the use of Russian is not being discriminated against. It clearly is. Ukraine's constitution is supposed to protect the right of use of Russian but clearly the authorities do not respect or uphold Ukraine's constitutional rights.

Yanukovycvh should lodge an appeal in Ukraine's Constitutional Court and if that fails appeal to the European Court of Humans Rights against this policy.

Article 10

The state language of Ukraine is the Ukrainian language.

The State ensures the comprehensive development and functioning of the Ukrainian language in all spheres of social life throughout the entire territory of Ukraine.

***

In Ukraine, the free development, use and protection of Russian, and other languages of national minorities of Ukraine, is guaranteed.

***

The State promotes the learning of languages of international communication.

The use of languages in Ukraine is guaranteed by the Constitution of Ukraine

Are you dense or what ?...no one is prevented from speaking in Russian ! What is your beef! Its as official as Ukrainian is in Russia!

Take a look at the development of English and the assimilation of language that took place over history. We no longer speak the language of Shakespeare except in plays.

It is not just the use of Russian but also Hungarian and other minority languages that are in use day to day within Ukraine that are under threat.

The use of language should not be divisive issue. It is Ukraine's diversity that is its greatest asset.

But as this article demonstrates the Russian speaking community is clearly being discriminated against and denied there constitutional rights.

No one is prevented nor arrested for speaking Russian ! You are way off base!

No one is prevented from speaking Ukrainian in Russia. Speak all you want, if you want it!

People, let's remember one thing, the Ukrainian gov't is NOT banning the use of languages in the country - it is establishing the national/official language of their country. Just like Canada has English and French as official languages and in schools children are being taught this language. The reality is, it will take a few generations for Ukraine to adapt to their language because the people of Ukraine have been "forced" to speak Russian and many people had no choice but to use that language in school and in the work place. It may be difficult at first but in time everyone will adapt.

Even the discussion of having the Russian language as an official language is an insult to me but more so to my parents, grandparents and all those who fought against these cold blooded killers.

If you live in Ukraine and really can't adapt to the change then go back to mother Russia.

Yes YES BRAVO ! You are SO CORRECT !!!!

Slava Ukraini !

You live in a world of fantasy. Unless they are forced by physical violence to do so, the people in cities such as Odessa, Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizha will never become Ukrainian speakers. It would literally take a nuclear war to convert them to Ukrainian.

here we go...first few normal lines which deteriate into the western ukranian diaspora diorrhea that has nothing to do with todays UKRAINE...ITS SO AMAZING TO SEE THIS WESTERN SPIVS BLEATING SOBBING AND CARING FOR OUR UKRAINE...PISS OFF AND LEAVE UKRAINE ALONE...come and visit and leave your dollars...we do not need your RIGHT-WING ADVICE AND WWII BANDERA INSURGENT REMENANTS

Over the long term (say in 50 years), I am sure that the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine today will still be Russian speaking in the future.

However, the Russian language will gradually be pushed out of Central Ukraine, and ultimately eradicated from public life.

It's shocking to see how the orange scum is turning Ukraine into a fascist state day by day. Congratulations, Katerina Yusch!

Another comment by a krenlinoid that hates to see President Yushchenko curb the russification of Ukraine.

LES, do you even live in Ukraine? Your "hate" reference is quite out of place. This is not a matter of "Kremlin". This is a matter of people's families, ways of life, values, and most of all - freedom. You cannot shove it down our throats what language is legal or illegal to speak. Russian is our language and if you don't like it - go back home to Canada, where you can tell the fairy tails about the "evil Russian empire', which you so much love to hate.

Dear guest,

Is this the best retort that you can give? I never used the word hate. Is historical truth hate? Does it pain you that historical truth contradicts and supersedes the soviet encyclopedia?

You stated, * Russian is our language* If Russian is your language, why do you still want to impose it on the Ukrainian people in Ukraine? Why not use it on a soap box on a street corner in moscow, by the kremlin, and receive many kopeks in the hat that you place on the sidewalk?

President Yushchenko curbed the russification of Ukraine, and that makes others foam at the mouth!

LES,

Why don't you go back to Lower East Side and eat your pierogi with 'nedobitye banderovtsy'. In case you don't understand this Russian phrase, it means - 'unfinsihed Banderovtsy (aka Nazi collaborators)".

Your days numbered. You're done. Social nationalists under the umbrella of Yuschenko have had their chance, and they have so spectacularly fucked it up.

So congratulations. Soon enough we will have a new president!

I think that it is shocking how Russia has invaded Georgia and broken

off South Ossetia and declared it an independent country but still has

not allowed the North Ossetia to reunite with South Ossetia. Maybe

we should demand for Putin to declare Chechnya an independent country

also.

But what is the justification of sending troops into Abkhasia – where there was no violence, attacking Georgia from Abkhasian territory – again when there was no provocation or even immediate threat from Georgia and attacking Georgia from the sea, where there are no South Ossetians are living, no Russian peacekeepers threatend at the Georgian coast. THis went well beyond any possible mandate and any possible justification. This was an act of pure aggression, lackin any legal or moral grounds.

Yes, the Russian language is discriminated against in Ukraine, that explains why you can't turn on Ukrainian television without hearing the Russian language, that explains why you are hard pressed to find a Ukrainian language book in Ukraine, that explains why most magazines and newspapers are printed in Russian. That explains why a show like Shuster Live is mostly in the Russian language, that explains why most Ukrainian politicians speak Russian rather than Ukrainian. That explains why most music heard on Ukrainian mass-media is in Russian. Its too bad that a politician like Yanukovich, who will most likely be the next president of Ukraine, is embarassed of the Ukrainian language. Shame on all of them!!!!!

Of course this is the main point. Russian is still the dominant language in Ukraine. Russian doesn't need protection. The language whose speakers' rights must be protected, is Ukrainian. "Protection of the Russian language" is one of the silliest but most successful Kremlin propaganda lines in this country. It is time to turn this argument on its head, and end radical proclamations on both sides. Both languages will continue to be spoken in Ukraine for a long, long time. Ukraine is hardly the only bilingual nation in Europe.

I read several of the replies to this article. Every country has an official language, and most often named after the country. Last time I looked Ukraine's official language was Ukrainian, not Russian and Ukrainian should be taught in schools. No one is barring any language from being spoken, or learned, But this is not a Soviet country anymore. This is Ukrainian and only a fool would want to shove mother Russia down everyones throats. I agree with the 1 poster who said,Dont like it,move back to mother Russia.

Wrong, the USA does not have an official language.

And Canada has two official languages, and many other languages have minority status. But we all know that no country can long survive without one, and only one, official language.

IT IS NOT URKANINA PATRIOTS WHO SQUABLE ABOUT THE RIGHTFUL PLACE OF UKRANIAN AND RUSSIAN LANGUAGES IN UKRAINE...it is sick right-wing dellusonary pseduo-intellectual descendents of the worst kind who donnt like UKRAINE TO PROSPER that are sowing the dissent and enimty between VERY closely related SLAVIC PEOPLE...tribes...I SAY ORANGE POX ON THEM.

Prozac time!!!

In rewriting their books, it appears that the kremlin removed the words Ukraine and Ukrainian from their dictionary and replaced them with the word orange. In spite of the kremlin's many decades of disinfommation and propaganda, the world realizes that Ukraine is a seperate and distinct culture, language, and nationality. When will the kremlin stop their incessant whining and realize that they failed?

LES, get rid of the snakes in your head.

Extremists on both sides of the language issue feed off each other. Yanukovich is blundering politically. All he has to say is that, under his government, people who prefer to speak in Russian can continue to do so. Just as it has been for the last 18 years. And Yanukovich should also add that no discrimination against speakers of the Ukrainian language will be tolerated either.

The main issue is not protecting the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine, but protecting the rights of Ukrainian speakers in Ukraine. As long as the debate (as here) focuses on the former rather than the latter, it's a victory for those who want to destabilize the political situation.

Thanks to Krivonis, who has put up some very wise and well-considered words on this subject here.

You have to read between the lines when you read what krivonic says.

POX ON TOXIC ORANGE

what to say....a corrupt 1% Mr /Im a USA puddle/, Yushi is rechetting things before January 17...the guy has gone mad...to the TOWER with him...the poxy has been told to create as much shit as possible...thats the USA order...policy now.../we paid you, YUSHI/. Now do as you told...We, the USA want YOU to destabilise UKRAINE... YOU ARE OUR MAN...our little ukranian SERF.

Nothing original to say

A national language is not difficult to understand. In France it's French. In Poland it's Polish.

In Ukraine it's Ukrainian.

In Ireland, it's Irish and English.

In Scotland, it's English.

In India, it's Hindi and English.

In Hong Kong, it's Chinese and English.

The Irish have written some of the finest literature in the English language, yet no one thinks to call an Irishman an Englishman. Only 1.2% of Scots still speak Gaelic. The economic and other advantages a knowledge of English gives Indian engineers and Hong Kong businessmen evidently outweigh the fact that an estimated 15 million Indians died in the Bengal famine engineered by the East India Company in the drive to cultivate opium poppies in India in order to enslave whole swathes of the Chinese population.

It seems to me impossible to deny the advantages that a knowledge of Russian offers. In sheer numbers and territory; and consequently literature, texts, ideas, and economic potential, it carries more weight. I do not have to like it — but I have to recognize that it is true. Ukrainians with Russian are further ahead than those without.

One of the things which is responsible for the decline of the knowledge of Russian in the former Soviet Union (particularly rapid in those under 17-years-old) is just such a process. Moldovan youth, for example, are increasingly turning to Western European languages rather than Russian, for precisely the same reason many Ukrainians stick fast to Russian. A knowledge of English, German, French or Italian increases the likelihood that one can find employment and realize one's ambitions in a larger arena, further afield. Knowledge of Russian offers something similar to Ukrainian citizens.

I understand as well as anyone the history of grievances between the two nations — but, in my view, it is important to focus on the living rather than the dead. We need to understand and hold dear, with human warmth and affection, those who are Ukrainian citizens NOW — and not waste time arguing how different they might have been if calamities that have already passed over us — hadn't.

As long as the argument for Ukrainian remains rooted in the past rather than the present — the language has a very dim future, given current demographic trends.

No one in Donets'k will find "You have to learn Ukrainian because in 1709 Peter the Great defeated Ivan Mazepa and put the prisoners of Poltava to work as slaves building St. Petersburg under horrific conditions" a convincing argument.

In a way, Eastern and Southern Ukrainian attitudes are more useful to the future of the country than some of the attitudes festering in the West, where emotional slogans against Moscow supplant concrete action to curb corruption and firmly establish civil society. The linguistic divide makes it more difficult for a demagogue to achieve and retain power on the national stage by playing cheap, political tricks. And it is up to Ukrainians who wish to safeguard the language to convince Easterners and Southerners that it offers more than a long history of suffering and pain.

It has to offer life.

Russia has a big problem. The Ukrainians continue to want their own land, their own Church, their own language, their own laws, their own culture, their own traditions, their own food, their own farms, their own wealth, their own borders – and especially their own freedom and independence.

Time for the Russians to realize that Ukraine is now a free and independent nation

state with its own language, history and culture, which they tried for centuries

to destroy, first under the Czars and then under the Commissars. Those Russians

who live in Ukraine need to understand that now they need to learn the Ukrainian

language just as Ukrainians who live in Russia need to learn and use Russian.

It is not such a difficult language for Russians to learn as Yanukovych thinks.

If the Russians try real hard they can succeed, just as other foreigners do.

>> 1863. Ban on printing any books in Ukrainian except for “belles-lettres.”

The Valuev Circular (Russian: Валуевский циркуляр, Valuyevskiy tsirkulyar; Ukrainian: Валуєвський циркуляр, Valuievs’kyi tsyrkuliar) of 18 July 1863 was a secret decree (ukaz) of the Minister of Internal Affairs of the Russian Empire Pyotr Valuev (Valuyev) by which a large portion of the publications in Ukrainian language was prohibited. The circular was written in response to the fear that education of the Ukrainian peasantry could cultivate national awareness and lead to separatism.

The Circular ordered the Censorship Committees to ban the publication of religious texts, educational texts, and beginner-level books in Ukrainian, but permitted publication of literature in that language.

The situation with Ukrainian language was later resolved in such a way that the usage of the language in open print was completely prohibited with the Ems Ukaz in 1876.

A NATIONAL language is not difficult to understand. In France it is French. In Poland it is Polish. In Ukraine it is Ukrainian.

in Ukraine, it's Russian, my friend, and Ukranian, for those who want to speak it.

Victor Yanukovich, a repeated candidate for the presidency of Ukraine, is a convicted criminal, having been sentenced to three years in prison for robbery in 1967. No sooner was he released than in 1970 he was convicted of assault and battery in 1970 and sentenced to two years in prison. In 1978 he was prosecuted a third time, but this time acquitted. Despite this, he twice received the official endorsement of Russian president Vladimir Putin and the Russian Duma.

Yanukovich became a member of the Communist Party in 1980.

An electrician by training, he does not have a genuine undergraduate diploma but rather only a degree he obtained through a correspondence school. He then obtained various higher degrees through vague periods of study. His knowledge of the Ukrainian language is extremely poor and his handwritten documents on record are full of linguistic errors.Yanukovich is closely linked to organized crime, and he has also been linked to the Russian KGB as a mole.

Here is an interesting comment that I found on another web site:

This is not a campaign to create hate between Ukraine and Russia but to bring out historical facts that have been suppressed under communism. It is amazing that Russians cannot bring themselves to

>> 1720. Peter I’s ukase banning the publication and printing of books in Ukrainian.

>> 1769. Ban {BY THE KREMLIN} on Ukrainian ABC books.

>> 1825 Modern Russian is sometimes said to begin with Pushkin.

Ukrainian was banned by the kremlin before Pushkin was born!

LES, paranoia is bitch. we all understand. hope you get over it sometimes, no matter how doubtful it may seem. :)

Moscow fears a united UKRAINE. Historical facts are historical FACTS - especially from independent sources!

Moscow wants united Ukraine. Strong Ukraine is strong Russia - one and the same.

Check one historical fact - where did Russia, and Ukraine for that matter, start?

An independent UKRAINE is not the same as a k-g-b controlled u-k-r-a-i-n-e s-t-a-t-e.

Yes, one historical fact is Moscow was actually Kyiv's colony. Until Moscow betrayed Kyiv and sided with the Chinese Mongols...

And most of Kyiv's principalities sold themselves for protection to the late-pagan Lithuanians. Chancery Ruthenian became the court language of Lithuania; Rus' missionaries brought enlightenment to the Batlic Sea. But when the master finds a mistress in Poland, everything changes.

It isn't just the "Chinese Mongols" and it isn't just in Russia that the divide between Kyiv and Moscow was crafted. The break between the Rus', the fault line between Orthodox and Catholic that lies in Western Ukraine begins as much with Lithuanian vassalage as it does with Batu Khan.

Pretending what arose on the territory of Ukraine in the aftermath of the Grand Duchy of Poland-Lithuania is somehow more authentically Ukrainian, transmitted unaltered, unsullied in an unbroken line from the court by the Golden Gates of Kyiv — is at best blissfully ignorant — at worst, disingenuous.

If Yanukovych doesn't like the "decision on obligatory use of Ukrainian in schools’

everyday life" then he should just move to Russia and take his Russian only speakers

who don't want to learn and use the Ukrainian language with him. No one is keeping

him or them in Ukraine. Moscow is just a short train ride away.

Please crunch the numbers for us.

How many Ukrainian citizens are you proposing to deport?

Again, a NATIONAL language is not difficult to understand. In France it is French.

In Poland it is Polish. In Ukraine it is Ukrainian.

Once again, a NATIONAL language is not difficult to understand. In France it is French.

In Poland it is Polish. For those kgb shills... Who for some reason

- more Moscow k-g-b p-r-o-p-a-g-a-n-d-a - do not understand... In China it is Chinese. In Italy is is Italian. In Japan it is Japanese.... In Ukraine it is Ukrainian. To be sure, there are MORE nations in the world with THEIR NATIONAL languages. What's interesting is how MOST NATIONS in the world want or already use English as their Official second language. NOT Russian. In fact, fewer and fewer people, year after year, use Russian in the world. But not English. I wonder why... ???

An official language, also, is not difficult to understand.

According to the EU National Institutions for Language, France is the only Western European nation (excluding microstates) to have only one officially recognized language — French.

In Spain: Spanish, Basque, Catalan, Valencian, Galician, Aranese.

In Switzerland: German, French, Italian, Rumantsch.

In Beligium: Flemish, French and German.

In Ireland: Irish and English.

In Portugal: Portuguese and Mirandese.

In the Netherlands: Dutch and West Frisian.

In Finland: Finnish and Swedish.

In Slovenia: Slovene, Hungarian, Italian.

In Italy: Italian, Venetian, Sardinian, Friulian, Albanian, Tyrolean, Occitan, Roma/Sinti, Sard.Sassarese, Corsican, Franco-Provencal, Slovenian, Ladin, French, Greek, Catalan, Croatian, Carinthian, and Carnian.

Sweden has no official language. Swedish, Finnish, Sami, Romani and Yiddish are recognized.

The United Kingdom has no official language. English, Scots, Welsh and Cornish are recognized.

A national language is not difficult to understand. In Ukraine it is Ukrainian.

For those who DO NOT understand Ukrainian try (many of the world's national languages are listed here): http://translate.google.com/

Знову ж таки, мова громадянином не важко зрозуміти. У Франції вона є французька.

У Польщі є польська мова. В Україні є українська.

In west Ukraine the national language is polish, in east Ukraine the national language is russian. Ukraine is sham country with no national identity. Never was, never will :D

And it is easy to fix the Ukraine dilemma about the "national language" - when the lands the ukrainian kleptomaniac Kruschev stole are returned to their rightfull owner, Ukraine will have to deal only with the POOlish origins of their "national language", heh, heh, heh :)

Another aproach will be much like what the US did is to conduct a PUBLIC REFERENDUM and chose the polish or russian to be the Ukraine national language, but the orange turds don't dare do that, 'cus they know the outcome :)

It says rather more about the mental health of Ukraine's neighbours than it does about Ukrainians, that they should invest so much time, money and energy dismantling a figment of their own imagination.

Russian hatred of things Ukrainian, especially the Ukrainian language, is

very evident on this forum. When are the Russians going to give up their

chauvinist mentality and accept the fact that no one wants to be dominated

by them? Perhaps the Russians can start a new leaf by getting out of

Chechnya and letting those people live in peace and freedom and show

that they are not the hypocrites that they showed themselves to be in South Ossetia.

Conversely, while many in the diaspora on this forum evince an all-consuming love for Ukraine (an ideal); precious few seem to have any sort of love or warmth left to offer actual Ukrainians.

The advice on offer seems to be: learn to hate your neighbour, members of your own family — and hate fiercely. Dedicate your life to an all-consuming struggle in which we in the West are merely spectators to build the sort of state in which none of us in the West would wish to live. Counter the bald-faced lies of Moscow with our own bald-faced lies, against which a syllable of doubt must never be uttered, because our distortions are sanctified by the national struggle.

Дідусь was wrong. He got swept up in the fever that took Europe in the 30's-40's; he was radicalized in DP camps by frightened men looking to save their skins and afraid of their own shadows. His grandchildren speak enough Ukrainian to say «баба, those are good голубці» and they marry strangers.

Does he love them any less?

Russian hatred of things Ukrainian, especially the Ukrainian language, is

very evident on this forum. When are the Russians going to give up their

chauvinist mentality and accept the fact that no one wants to be dominated

by them..

ONLY A PERSON WITH LOW SELF-ESTEEM, SELF-LOATHING AND DUBIOUS IDENTITY can bring himself to express these thoughts...

EVERY NORMAL RUSSIAN REJOYCES THAT YOU ARE UKRANIAN, SPEAK UKRANIAN AND LIVE UKRAINE...sick phantasies of RIGHT-WING, NATIONALIST THAT HATE ANYTHING SLAVIC AND PLEDGE THEIR ALLEGENCE TO SOMETHING THAT NEVER EXISTED, DOES NOT EXIST AND NEVER WILL EXIST IS TOXIC AND WILL HAVE TO BE ERASED, CONTAINED GRADUALLY...UKRAINE MUST RECOVER AND TAKE ITS RIGHTFUL PLACE IN THE LEAGUE OF SLAVIC NATIONS...AND THE ENTIRE WORLD...

PROUD little k-g-b state slaves.

In Ukrainian: Знову ж таки, мова громадянином не важко зрозуміти. У Франції вона є французька. У Польщі є польська мова. В Україні є українська.

Видно що Крим — це не ваша Україна.

Стаття 10.

1. В Автономній Республіці Крим поряд з державною мовою

забезпечується функціонування і розвиток, використання і захист

російської, кримськотатарської, а також мов інших національностей.

2. В Автономній Республіці Крим російська мова як мова

більшості населення і прийнятна для міжнаціонального спілкування

використовується в усіх сферах суспільного життя.

3. В Автономній Республіці Крим громадянам гарантується право

виховання рідною мовою у дитячих дошкільних закладах, вивчення

рідної мови, навчання рідною мовою у учбових закладах державної,

республіканської і комунальної форм власності або через

національні культурні товариства або в порядку, який визначається

законодавством України і нормативно-правовими актами Верховної

Ради Автономної Республіки Крим у межах її компетенції.

Стаття 11.

Відповідно до законодавства України в Автономній Республіці

Крим офіційні документи, які посвідчують статус громадянина, -

паспорт, трудова книжка, документи про освіту, свідоцтво про

народження, про шлюб та інші, - виконуються українською та

російською мовами, а за клопотанням громадянина - і

кримськотатарською мовою.

Стаття 12.

Відповідно до чинного законодавства України в Автономній

Республіці Крим як мова судочинства, нотаріального провадження,

провадження у справах про адміністративні правопорушення,

юридичної допомоги використовується українська або за клопотанням

учасника відповідного провадження російська мова як мова більшості

населення Автономної Республіки Крим.

Or for clarity's sake — in the original:

Статья 10.

1. В Автономной Республике Крым наряду с государственным языком обеспечивается функционирование и развитие, использование и защита русского, крымскотатарского, а также языков других национальностей.

2. В Автономной Республике Крым русский язык как язык большинства населения и приемлемый для межнационального общения используется во всех сферах общественной жизни.

3. В Автономной Республике Крым гражданам гарантируется право воспитания на родном языке в детских дошкольных учреждениях, изучения родного языка, обучения на родном языке в учебных заведениях государственной, республиканской и коммунальной форм собственности или через национальные культурные общества либо в порядке, определяемом законодательством Украины и нормативно-правовыми актами Верховной Рады Автономной Республики Крым в пределах ее компетенции.

Статья 11.

В соответствии с законодательством Украины в Автономной Республике Крым официальные документы, удостоверяющие статус гражданина, - паспорт, трудовая книжка, документы об образовании, свидетельство о рождении, о браке и другие, - выполняются на украинском и русском языках, а по ходатайству гражданина - и на крымскотатарском языке.

Статья 12.

В соответствии с действующим законодательством Украины в Автономной Республике Крым в качестве языка судопроизводства, нотариального производства, производства по делам об административных правонарушениях, юридической помощи используется украинский или по ходатайству участника соответствующего производства русский язык как язык большинства населения Автономной Республики Крым.

A national language is not difficult to understand. In Ukraine it is Ukrainian.

There is no such thing a a national language and there is no reason why a country and not have more then one official Language. Switzerland has four. German, Italian, French, Romansh. (Five if your 9include English) Ukraine has Ukraine, Polish, Russian Hungarian, Romanian, Tartaric, Hutzal and a host of other dialects and words thrown in. Its Ukraine's diversity that make Ukraine Ukraine. Embrace it and love all its flavors and culture. "Nationalism breads hatred not unity.

Presumably you meant to write:

In Ukraine it is Ukrainian...

...with the explicit exception of languages protected under the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages signed by President Yuschenko in 2005;

and,

...with the explicit exception of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, whose own Constitution (ratified by Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada in 1998) is written in Russian — and in Chapter 3, Articles 10-13 of which, Russian is enshrined as the language of the majority of the population, to be used in all spheres of public life; guaranteeing delivery of services to citizens in Russian or Ukrainian or in another language acceptable to the parties, and which guarantees citizens of the Autonomous Republic education in Russian in preschool, public school, and through national cultural societies.

The only true Ukrainian is spoken ion Poltava. The Ukrainian spoken in Western Ukraine is a polish derivative. It a bit like English some say the Scottish speak English, The Welsh no longer speak their native tongue, Many words even in Ukrainian come are a derivative of other nations. Language is a living entity it is not fixed. get over it. Sure teach Ukrainian BUTR it is not the only language in use. Many Ukrainians speak Hungarian, German, English, Russian, Swedish and a host of in between. The diversity that makes Ukraine Ukraine. Live and enjoy it and respect all cultures not just what you claim to be UKRAINIAN. Ultra Nationalists are the real minority. Ukraine;s Constitution protects the use of all languages. Trace it do not forsake it. Live in Peace and harmony with your neighbors.

JUST AS I THOUGHT...THE NUMBER OF SICK RIGHT-WING NAZI PUPPIES IN UKRAINE DOES NOT REACH MORE THAN 1%....OUT OF 160 COMMENTS ON THIS TOPIC, THERE ARE BETWEEN 16-30 LUNATICS WHOSE COMMENTS PROVOKE TURE UKRAINIAN POPULACE AND WHICH PROPAGATE THE RIGHT-WING NAZI BANDERA PHILOSOPHY IMPORTED TO UKRAINE VIA POLAND, PAID BY THE CIA AND CARRIED BY THE CORRUPT AND COMPLAINT YANKEE-DUDDLE ORANGE PRESIDENT YUSHI...

GOD HELP UKRAINE GETTING THE WEED WEEDED ON JANUARY 17.

Stepan Bandera’s brother Bohdan died in the 1942 fighting the Nazis after they had entered Lviv. On July 5, 1941 Stepan Bandera was arrested in Krakow and taken to Berlin where he was initially kept in a jail before being transferred to Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp where he remained interned until 1944. His brother Oleksandr, who had a PhD in Political Economy which he received in Rome and brother Vasyl (graduate of Philosophy, Lviv University) were arrested, interred and killed in the Auschwitz Concentration Camp in 1942. Andriy Bandera, Stepan’s father was killed by the Soviets during an interrogation. His sisters Oksana and Marta-Maria were arrested by the Soviets in 1941 and sent to Siberia without the right to return to Ukraine. Marta-Maria died in Siberia in 1982, and her sister Oksana returned to Ukraine in 1989 where she died in 2004. Another sister, Volodymyra – was sentenced to a term in Soviet labour correction camps from 1946-1956.

The Nazis also killed Ernst Rohm and 120 leaders of the SA; Stalin purged whole cadres of Red Army and political officers and the entire bolshevik leadership. It does not make them worthy, it does not mean that they are martyrs, it does not sanctify their cause.

Suffering is the least remarkable aspect of the human condition — it is so pervasive that it is an utterly inadequate measure of the worthiness of any given individual, let alone his ideas or his particular ideology. Suffering is ideologically useful — indeed the struggle of the nation or the proletariat against an enemy is laced with a powerful, irrational, emotional appeal that demands adherents see the entire past as unendurable woe — against which only violent and bloody struggle will provide any surety.

Did the families of the men and women killed on Bandera's orders suffer any less because there was a nationalist ideological underpinning to their murder?

This is, after all, the very process that we are witnessing in Russia — and that you have, in other posts, rightly decried. In a Ukrainian versus Russian nationalist pissing match, the country with fewer resources, fewer citizens, a smaller market and less international respect will lose. Not to put too fine a point on it: that is Ukraine.

The only course is to build something in Ukraine that offers more to its citizens in terms of freedoms, security, opportunity than exists across the border. That means swallowing one's national pride and accepting that independence does not mean that the country has become something completely different from what it was 18 years ago; nor that the clock can be turned back by force of will.

Ukrainians speak Russian and Ukrainian and Polish and Hungarian and Romanian and Slovak, Bulgarian, Tatar, Gagauz, Greek, German, Moldavian. That IS the country. Those ARE its citizens.

The time for ideological war is over. Real work has to begin.

All Ukrainians have suffered because of the policies of the kremlin, not just Bandera, and his family!

All Ukrainians have suffered because of the policies of the kremlin! My point was that kremlin propagandists claim that Bandera was a Nazi. Please explain how Bandera was a Nazi when the Nazis Imprisoned and/or killed Bandera, and his family?

>> 1930’s [+ or -] Most Ukrainians have had relatives in the gulags! There were about 18,000,000++ people were sent to the gulags, and some of the camps were 90% Ukrainian! You do the math. HOLODOMOR was not the only GENOCIDE orchestrated by the kremlin against the Ukrainians! In their continuing GENOCIDE of the Ukrainian people, culture and language, they called Ukrainians “ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE”, rather than Ukrainians, to rationalize their GENOCIDE of the Ukrainian people. Or, the kremlin called Ukrainians “kulaks”, in order to exterminate {PRONOUNCED GENOCIDE} the Ukrainians.

Bandera wasn't a Nazi — he could not have been a member of the NSDAP. But that OUN(B) was an organization aligned philosophically with fascist ideology isn't a distortion — it's written in black and white in the resolutions of the Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists 1929, 1939, OUN(B) 1941.

In 1943, under Shukhevych, in an effort to attract and incorporate Central and Eastern Ukrainians (hostile to notions of one party rule and suspicious of private ownership under such a system) into the ranks, OUN(B) softened its ideological positions across the board, and diluted the powers of leadership among a triumvirate.

After his release in 1944, Bandera sets about systematically undermining the more moderate ideological positions acceptable to Eastern Ukrainians, undermining the democratization of OUN(B) in 1943, tinkering with the autonomy of UPA and the UHVR. In 1948, he orchestrates the expulsion of Ukrainian opposition from ZCh OUN. In 1956, he breaks the triumvirate apart.

Please, don't tell me how much Bandera's family suffered.

Tell me instead, why it is you feel I ought to feel particular kinship to the concept of one-party totalitarianism, based in part on mythologies that would stifle, gag and suffocate intelligent inquiry into those areas of Ukrainian history that do not support the ideological narrative, guided by one man — a leader — accountable only to God and his conscience in the actions he takes to fulfill his understanding of his duties to the nation?

The effect of the internecine conflict between Banderivtsi and more moderate elements in the diaspora has been corrosive — and the decline of the community fed ideological pap about what it is to be Ukrainian has been severe. If you can find a handful of teenagers who pay more than lipservice to the bunk they were taught in рідна школа, you've stumbled on a particularly dim-witted, unsophisticated bunch.

Which is why, according to KGB-inspired outfits like Stats Canada, the Ukrainian language has fallen off the face of the map — the most rapid decline next to Italian in the country — spoken now almost exclusively in seniors' residences.

That they emote over the dead better than they empathize with the living is the loudest tocsin one can sound about nationalist ideologues.

Myths of blood and soil mark pagans — and the lot of pagans is to cease.

Worry about keeping Svetlana in Donets'k from walking the streets in Ankara rather than weeping over millions and millions of dead.

just my humble word or two to the commentry bellow...you read the bandera followers diatribe and can not escape the fact that they somehow they are clinging to something strange, remote, foreign and totally dispicale to a true, honest, jovial and loving UKRANIAN-RUSSIAN CTIZEN. lviv lot somehow want to erase, burn, obliterate everything dear to UKRANIAN-RUSSIAN TRIBE. THIS IS TO BE DENOUNCED AND SURGICALLY REMOVED FROM UKRANIAN-RUSSIAN SOUL...on the other hand, NORMAL LIVING THINKING CITIZENS OF UKRAINE - 96% - GOING ABOUT THEIR LIVES AND TRY AS BEST AS THEY CAN GET ON WITH LIFE...ECONOMCS...MONEY CAN SOW THE SEEDS OF DISCONTENT...but there is precious little out there that CONIVING POLES AND BALTS CAN DO TO SEVER THE BROTHERLY LOVE BETWEEN RUSSIANS AND LITTLE RUSSIANS...after all the bonds of history are such that it would have to be ARMEGEDON before such a bond would not exist any longer...just imagine the catastrophy, if one day UKRAINE WAS TO WAKE UP, and find itself POLISH COLONY

You are just another sick puppy from the kremlin. Poland has been a supporter of Ukraine for decades.

I DONT MIND BEING A sick puppy from the kremlin. WHAT I WOULD STRONGLY OBJECT AND VEHEMENTLY MIND being a STOOGE OF Poland WHICH has been a DESPICABLE UNDERHANDED supporter of Ukraine for decades...AND WHOSE PROPAGANDA YOU TRY TO PEDDLE HERE, NAMELY, whatever may hurt RUSSIA and whatever hinders UKRANIAN AND RUSSIAN ADVANCEMENT HAD TO BE SABOTAGED AT ANY COST...now thats profane, ugly proclivity condemns you and your lviv, tu$#%@ and ivano-frankestatin minority in lviv, tu$#%@ and ivano-frankestatin region so much so that your despicable attempts to propagate the enmity between RUSSIANS AND UKRANIANS IS beyond the pale.

you are DAMNED, brother..

Your realizing that you are a sick puppy from the kremlin {NASHI?} is the first step for you - to cure your insanity.

Since when is historical truth propaganda and useful idiots rewritten history - truth?

And, when kremlin propagandists state that Ukrainians are their brother, it reminds me of George Orwell's book - 1984 - or Cain and Abel - from the Bible.

Genesis 4

8 Cain said to Abel, his brother, “Let’s go into the field.” It happened when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel, his brother, and killed him.

8 ¶ І говорив Каїн до Авеля, брата свого. І сталось, як були вони в полі, повстав Каїн на Авеля, брата свого, і вбив його.

Muscovy, now known as the Russian Federation, has been trying to destroy Rus'-Ukraine ever since Bogoliubsky sacked Kyiv in the Middle Ages. Ukraine's early history when Ukraine

was known as Rus' is forever enshrined in the Rus' Primary Chronicle or "Povist Menulykh Lit". There it clearly tells everyone who the Russians are and who the Ukrainians and the Bela-Rus' people are. It is not a mystery, it just needs some reading. The Russians can

bellow all they want, but fact is that what is today Russia was once a mere non-Slavic

province of Kyivan Rus' that paid TRIBUTE to Rus'. If you disagree, just do a little reading for

yourself. :-)

LOL. Very true!

Terrific! Now if only the Primary Chronicle could tell us which of Ukraine's current citizens are descendants of the Pechenegs, Bulgars, Alans, Avars, Khazars, Goths, Magyars, Cherkess, Meschera, Derevlianians, Siverianians, Ulychians, Tiverstians, Dulebians, White Croats, and Dregovich, we might better know whose rights to abbridge.

Varangian settlement, conquest and migration moved North to South, not South to North.

"The Chuds, the Slavs, the Krivichians and the Ves then said to the Rus, "Our land is great and rich, but there is no order in it. Come reign as princes, rule over us". Three brothers, with their kinfolk, were selected. They brought with them all the Rus and migrated. The oldest, Rurik, located himself in Novgorod; the second, Sineus, in Beloozero; and the third, Truvor, in Izborsk. From these Varangians, the Rus' land received its name. Thus those who live in Novgorod are descended from the Varangian tribe, but earlier they were Slavs."

- The Primary Chronicle

"Within two years, Sineus and his brother Truvor died. Rurik gathered sole authority into his own hands, parceling out cities to his own men, Polotsk to one, Rostov to another, and to another Beloozero. The Varangians in these cities are colonists, but the first settlers in Novgorod were Slavs; in Polotsk, Krivichians; in Beloozero, Ves; in Rostov, Merians; and in Murom, Muromians. Rurik had dominion over all these folk. Two of Rurik

Two of Rurik

Two of Rurik's men who were not of his tribe but were warriors sought permission to go to Tsar'grad with their tribe. They thus sailed down the Dnepr, and in the course of their journey they saw a small city on a hill. They asked, "Whose town is this? " The inhabitants answered, "There were three brothers, Kii, Shchek and Khoriv, who built this burg, but they have since died. We who are their descendants dwell here and pay tribute to the Khazars". Askold and Dir remained in this city, and after gathering together many Varangians, they established their dominion over the country of the Polianians.

- The Primary Chronicle

Rurik's city Novgorod — for those without a keen eye for geography — is not in Ukraine.

The Chud and the Ves were Finno-Ugric tribes, the Kryvychi and Sloveny were non-Ukrainian Slavic tribes that had invaded and pressed into the Finno-Ugric lands thereby creating friction and warfare. After driving the Vikings out, they continued fighting each other and created a situation which was worse than when the Vikings ruled over them. Thus they invited the Rus' Vikings to come back and rule over them. After Rurik died, actually very shortly after they arrived since Ihor was still a small boy, the Rus' had enough of the Slavics and Finno-Ugrian conflicts and decided to move down to beautiful sunny Kyiv and established the Kyivan Rus' empire.

i do not disagree...my friend...and i do not want to read that polis-ukranian nationalistic crap...you guys are orbitting different world...SEE FOR YOURSELF...LOOK AROUND...OBSERVE STUDIOUSLY...and what you see...UKRAINE IS RUSSIA AND RUSSIA IS UKRAINE WITH ALL ITS BEAUTY...and low lives that want to destroy that SPECIAL-IRON-CLAD BOND have no my sympathy, understanding and tolerance FOR slav people..just look at poles...they want to exterminate everything SLAVIC...in the name of their pious and adoring CATHOLIC CHURCH...and to go hand-in-hand and along with that hating, evil-bent religious zealots is not my cup of tea... your politics AND politics of DEMOCRATIC-CHRISTAN poland is not something that A DECENT, HARDWORKING AND PATRIOTIC UKRANIAN CITIZEN has desire to participate in...

If the Russians stopped interferring in Ukrainian internal affairs and worried about their own country then both countries would be better off. As for ethnicity, the Jewish people have much non-Jewish blood flowing in their veins, and yet there is a Jewish "type". Likewise in Ukraine, there may be many intermarriages, yet there remains a Ukrainian "type" just as there is a Russiain "type" and the two are inherently different and the root of both these nations is quite different from the very beginning, one being Slavic and the other Finno-Ugricl and that is just an endeniable historical fact. Maybe that is why the Russians have such a difficult time learning Ukrainian. Maybe it's time for them to pack up and go home just like the European colonists left Africa and the English left India, etc..

Very good. I accept that is your position.

Since you have found that there is a Ukrainian "type", a Russian "type" and a Jewish "type," then they can be dispassionately described.

Please — what are the characteristics that mark the Ukrainian and Russian "types"?

Ukrainian characteristics = brotherly love + love of family, friends, and neighbors; as compared to the secular uncivilized barbarians in the kremlin =????????????

With all thy soul love God above;

And as thyself thy neighbor love.

Poor Russian mongrel nation full of Mongol blood still has not satisfied its lust for Ukrainian blood, not to mention Chechen blood, Estonian blood, Tatar blood, Lithuanian blood, etc.. Time for the Russians to worry about their own country and leave their neighbors alone in peace. BTW, most true Slavic nations are already free of the Russian mongrels and have joined NATO. Time for Belarus and Ukraine to do the same, for their own national security, just as the other Slavic nations have done.

If I understand you correctly, you are proposing a DNA citizenship test — where the "Ukrainianess" of one's blood is determined against a 100% bona fide Ukrainian blood type like that which flowed in the veins of Ivan Fedorovych, Petro Mohyla, Hetman Dmytro Bayda Vyshnevetsky, Hetman Ivan Pidkova.

It's a terrific idea.

Once one discovers just how Russian, Moldavian, Polish, Lithuanian, and Romanian "Ukrainians" are — one might finally cease worrying about finding a quasi-racial mythological basis for being Ukrainian — and come to the conclusion that Ukraine, as much, and perhaps more than other nations that surround it, has always been a country of diverse peoples and diverse languages.

This means the task is to form consensus, enshrined in law, about how these diverse citizens wish themselves to be governed; and how they wish the course of their lives to run — rather than to insist on "reading between the lines" of history in order to weave a fable from a figment of a fantasy.

You missed the point. The point is that the Ukrainian people, as diverse as they may be, are not of the same general ethnicity as the Russians. Can you understand that? Probably not. Just look at all the other European nations, they all have components of other nations in their ethnic background, but that does not negate that they have an ethicity different from their neighbors, even though they may be related, which the Ukrainians and Russians basically are not, just as the Swedes and Finns are not for example..

I assure you, I didn't. Unless the argument has changed from "poor mongrel Russians" to "poor mongrel everyone."

The argument is based on an ethnicity which is innate — in very crude terms — on a Ukrainian racial type, predisposed to act in certain ways not because he is convinced of certain truths — but because flowing in his veins is Ukrainian blood.

There's good news and bad news. More than 100 nationalities and ethnic groups live in Ukraine. Intermarriage rates (particularly in the city) are moderate to high. By some estimates, a quarter of the ethnic Russian population marries non-Russians; just under 20% of Ukrainians marry non-Ukrainians. Smaller communities have correspondingly higher rates of intermarriage. The Jewish community has an intermarriage rate of 80%. Extrapolated over a period of contact measured in centuries, you will not find Ukrainian blood.

Now for the bad news: You're going to have to WORK to build the country. It won't just fall from the синє жовте sky.

I wonder why the escrament from lviv...t@#$% and ivano-frankestain is in habit of counting other people blood content...is it because they carry in themselves the seeds of unravelling pathological inability to comprehend that they are humans of servile nature...harking for and to glorious SSWaffen Division days in 1940"

Even in this, Ukrainians were bested by the Russians, who under Generals Vlasov, Trukhin, Nerianin, Zakutny, Blagoveschensky, Angeleiev, Belogortsev, Borodin, Archangelsky, von Lampe, Dragomirov, Golovin, Abramov, Shilenkov, Balabin, Poliakov, Kreiter, Domanov, Skorodumov, Shteifon, and a host of capable officers like Krasnov Kononov and Meandrov — fielded the Русская освободительная армия (124,000 men), the XV.Kosaken-Kavallerie-Korps (2 divisions, 50,000 men), the Русский Охранный Корпус (17,000 men), and the 1-я Русская национальная армия (10,000 men) in the service of the German Reich — dwarfing the total number (40,000) of men who served in SS Galizien — whose fighting strength never exceeded 20,000.

Imagine Ukrainian frustration...

Even in the field of collaboration —

Russia is Number 1.

Then why do they have so much trouble learning Ukrainian? Poor frustrated Russians, can't learn the language of a neighboring country that they try so hard to convince that they are brotherly countries. Such a joke.

They have no such trouble. Where there's a reason, Russians make the transition from one language to the other with little difficulty.

Thus far, though, Ukrainians under independence have demonstrated the same thing the leading intellects of the liberal, humanist, 19th century Ukrainian movement constantly upbraided their countrymen for: indolence.

Ukrainians are waiting for the world to wake up one day and say, "Ukraine: what a marvelous thing!" and for Russians to say: "You know, today, I should learn Ukrainian!"

We're given an unending gnashing of teeth from the Голодоморди, a litany of suffering a million miles long — rather than news of a Ukrainian innovation in science; a prize awarded to a Ukrainian composer or pianist, recognition of living people leading not only productive, but important lives, sanctified in the effort to improve the lot of men and women everywhere.

People wish to live surrounded by, infused by, inspired by life. We're stupid enough to offer them death.

Yanukovich DEFENDS the Crimea Constitution from the orange hohol thieves.

Статья 10.

1. В Автономной Республике Крым наряду с государственным языком обеспечивается функционирование и развитие, использование и защита русского, крымскотатарского, а также языков других национальностей.

2. В Автономной Республике Крым русский язык как язык большинства населения и приемлемый для межнационального общения используется во всех сферах общественной жизни.

3. В Автономной Республике Крым гражданам гарантируется право воспитания на родном языке в детских дошкольных учреждениях, изучения родного языка, обучения на родном языке в учебных заведениях государственной, республиканской и коммунальной форм собственности или через национальные культурные общества либо в порядке, определяемом законодательством Украины и нормативно-правовыми актами Верховной Рады Автономной Республики Крым в пределах ее компетенции.

Presumably, you aren't referring to the author, Mykola Vasyliovych, when you write "hohol."

Anachronism aside, it's heartening to see that the autonomous republic has enshrined the concept of a state language distinct from Russian in its Constitution.

Very brotherly, thank you.

Parts of Crimea (Tmutorokan' Rus' ) were a part of the Kyivan Rus' Empire when Moscow did not even exist and the Finno Ugrians of Suzdal', Muroma, etc. were still paying tribute to Kyiv.

Yes. And before that, the Goths lived there — and before that they were bleak parts of the Roman Empire where Ovid was exiled — and before that, they were Greek colonies — and before that, the Amazons lived there — and before that, the Titans.

And after that the Byzantines received tribute and slaves from colonies there — and after that the Genoese — and after that the Venetians — and after that the Golden Horde — and after that, the Russians Empire.

Why we should fix the point in time Kyivan Rus' held sway over parts of Crimea rather than Genoa, Venice, Greece, the Tatars or Russia is for you to argue. Joining Italy might not be the worst thing to happen to the peninsula.

Focus on the living; make their lives more bearable, their lot easier — and these arguments over obscure moments in the past when my father and his uncle and her grandad did something none of us can understand or remember, but over which we're ready to launch a fist fight — will disappear.

Yes, and today the Crimea is a part of Ukraine and the Russians should just accept that fact and learn to speak the Ukrainian language. Or is it too difficult for the Muscovites to learn a real Slavic language? Funny that the Ukrainians have no difficulty to learn Russian when they go to live or work in Russia, or any of the European language where thy go to travel or work in Europe. Is it because the Russians are mentally inferior that they seem to have so much trouble learning to speak Ukrainian?

Indeed, that's so. Not only Russians — but most of the citizens of the entire developed world are so mentally inferior in respect of Ukrainian nationalists that they haven't bothered to learn Ukrainian either — and their libraries, symphony halls, galleries and academies are packed with literature, scores, artworks, and treatises written and composed by hundreds of thousands of ignorant, non-Ukrainian speaking citizens of the world, who are offered simple-minded adulation in the form of non-Ukrainian prizes like scholarships and fellowships to non-Ukrainian institutions where they research and write and contribute to human civilization in decidedly non-Ukrainian ways.

What is Bach, after all, compared to the rhythmic perfection, the spiritual vibrancy and the essential truth of a village Kolomeika?

It's envy, I assure you.

Russians won't learn Ukrainian until they have more reason than a creaky, maudlin, dirge-riddled whingefest of a nationalist ideology provides.

Create something.

“Another stupidity” could be the national motto.

RUSSIA+UKRAINE = UKRAINE+RUSIA

TO ME ITS THE SAME...WE ARE OF THE SAME STOCK...admitedly, there are nasty bits and pieces that do not qualify as homo sapiens....the tiny minority within the minority in the WESTERN UKRAINE is a story for itself...its insignificance and perversion speak for themselves...just look at the ORANGIST YUSSSHI...DOES NOT THE PICTURE TELL A THOUSAND WORDS?

To you it's the same because you are an IDIOT! If we were the same then why are the Russians living in Ukraine so averse to learning and using Ukrainian? Finno Ugrians and Slavs are not of the same stock. Do you now understand why I am calling you an IDIOT??? Probably not!!!

"Finno Ugric" and "Slavic" have one thing in common — they both more accurately describe language groups rather than a race of people. The ethnic groups that speak Slavic languages are genetically diverse — and there is little to suggest that Laplanders and Finns are genetically closer to Estonians or Hungarians than they are to Swedes or the Slavs who border Hungary and the Baltics.

The notion that Russians are Finno-Ugric, and racially distinct from (that is to say, inferior to) Ukrainians was promulgated by OUN(B) in the first instance — which maintained a department on race affairs.

The word for the theory in Finnish is "skeida."

In Hungarian, it is "szar."

The verb, in Estonian is: "sittuma."

And in tall, blonde and high-cheekboned, Indo-Aryan Ukrainian, it would translate as: «гівно» or «кал».

Russia supported South Ossetia in leaving Georgia, so why don't the Russia freedom lovers leave Chechnya and let the Chechens live in peace? Better yet, why doesn't Russia let Northern Ossetia join South Ossetia to make one Ossetian state. Do we detect some typical Russian hypocrisy here? Instead of stirring up strife in Ukraine, it would be better for Russia to worry about their Far East before the Chinese take it over. :-)

Research what you write. You will find that ethnic Russians HAVE left Chechnya and much of the North Caucasus since the blood-soaked 90's. Russians — who once made up close to 30% of the republic's population — now make up 3.7%.

The result in Chechnya is the sort of national revival OUN(B) once proposed: a one-party totalitarian state, with a national leader in control, doling out land, industry and offices to faithful Chechen cadres. The law is the word and whim of Ramzan — no other.

Because a self-sufficient economy doesn't exist in Chechnya, the Kadyrovtsi are milking the Moscow cow. In a similar fashion, OUN(B)'s leadership, which fed slogans of self-sufficiency and isolation from non-Ukrainian infection to the marching drones — realizing that their goals could not be reached "alone, by us, ourselves" — crawled into bed with any foreign agent who promised them a piece of the pipe bomb.

That's why almost the entire network was rolled up in one go — by one man: Kim Philby.

Chechnya is the poster-child of the state a few Ukrainian nationalists think ideal:

A closed, closeted protectorate, run by a strong man and his loyalists, controlling national assets of any worth — while force-feeding a brutalized population "traditional values" and fictions of history and identity.

And, just as the Kadyrovs began with betrayal, and just as Kadyrovtsi had the Yamadaevs — also Chechens, also leaders, also fighters, also nationally conscious — killed...

...the Banderivtsi went after Bul'ba-Borovets — co-opted the name "UPA," disarmed existing UPA units, liquidated the UPA leadership, surrounded UPA headquarters with OUN(B) battalions, killed the officers inside, and murdered Borovets' wife.

These Ukrainian heroes — in the middle of war, when hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are penned in cattle cars for slave labour in Germany, when 6.5 million Ukrainians are being killed — take the time to assassinate a few hundred more.

Слава Героям! Вічна Слава!

So why is it taking the Russian freedom lovers so long to recognize Chechnian indpendence? Seems that they had no difficulty in recognizing South Ossetia almost immediately?

Haha! indeed.

But wipe the wistful grin off the emoticon's face — do you have any idea what a Chinese takeover of the Russian resources base on which Ukraine is almost entirely dependent for its manufacturing economy implies? Which way do you suppose the oil, gas, timber, steel, uranium and mineral wealth of Siberia and Central Asia would flow?

To the 1.5 billion in China, or the 46 million in Ukraine?

The fact that it is apparently more important to relish the thought of an epochal Russian humiliation than it is to think rationally about what the consequences of such a humiliation would be for the men, women and children alive, living and yet to be born in Ukraine is PRECISELY what marks knee-jerk nationalism as the practice of dimwits.

I at last accept the nationalist notion that they are descendants of Rurik. The link between their ideas and the royal house is clearly discernible — in breeding.

encore...SO MUCH SMOOCHING AND LOVE...

first and formost no russian dislikes hohols...YOU ARE OUR LITTLE DEAR brothers...AND US WILL NOT PART TILL DEATH...

SUCH IS LOVE....UNBROKEN UNCHAINED MELODY....oh my love, my darling...ukraine, i hunger for your touch....time can do so much..ukraine i need your love...

cheers

RUSSIAN COUSINS

So, the Russians don't like "hohols"; interesting you trying to use a Russian derision of Ukrainans. I guess Russian love includes

MURDERING MILLIONS of Ukrainians by mass starvation, the HOLODOMOR, during the 1930s as true brotherly love. And the mass killings of Ukrainian patriots in prisons and mass deportations to Siberia and Kazakstan, all examples of Russian brotherly love. With this kind of love, Hitler murdered millions of Jews and other nationalities. Such nice Russian love. And now the Russian colonists who populated Eastern Ukraine, after the HOLODOMOR, don't want to learn Ukrainian, such "brothers", NOT!!! Yes, I know you want to complete the bloody works of your fathers.

I WROTE...

no russian dislikes hohols...

THAT MEANS WE CAN NOT BUT LOVE YOU.

RUSSIA WITH LOVE...COUSIN YURY...