Konstantin KlimenkoKP: How did you start your political career?
AS: I started through public work. At the end of the 1980s, I was an active member of the youth wing of the Helsinki Human Rights Union. I also took part in the Organization of Independent Ukrainian Youth and was in the [right-wing] UNA-UNSO [Ukrainian National Assembly-Ukrainian National Self Defense] for some time. So, I was involved in public work first, then in politics. The movement “Ukraine without Kuchma!” in 2000 [against then Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma] made me think that not only public movements were important, but also parties. So I decided to join a party with a wide spectrum of views. Batkivshchyna [Fatherland] became such a party for me.
KP: Having a broad spectrum in a party can make it difficult to achieve a single position. Is this true of Batkivshchyna?
AS: Yes, it is difficult to make certain decisions. But a party is a part of the society that it reflects. Unfortunately, Ukraine was formed as a country of different mentalities.
KP: What do you mean by “different mentalities”?
AS: The problem of self-identity. And, to be honest, it is growing. Western Ukrainians identify themselves as different from eastern Ukrainians, but find something in common with Poles. It is vice versa in eastern Ukraine, where people find more in common with Russians. The state doesn’t care about this and has not even planned to do anything about it.
For example, living in Kyiv, I read Polish periodicals because it doesn’t matter to me what newspapers I read, excluding Ukrainian ones, but I prefer Polish to Russian periodicals because they are more impartial. This is the way I maintain contact with the world, because I don’t want to do this through Russia. If I have a choice between Polish and Russian, I choose Polish without hesitation. If I had the same product, movie or TV program in Ukrainian, I would never have such a problem of choice.
Ukraine is a classic example of a divided country. And with each month of its independence, the difference in mentality is increasing. To accuse [Donetsk-born Prime Minister Viktor] Yanukovych or someone else of this doesn’t make sense. He just made use of an already existing problem. We need to unify the mentality. And it has to be done at state level with a definite program. We should defend our culture and language. And if someone proposes Russian as a second official language, I will propose Polish as a third official language to save my identity.
KP: Besides promoting Polish as a third language, what are you planning to do as a lawmaker?
AS: I work in the parliamentary committee on foreign affairs, where I try to push the government to actively work on the issue of Ukraine’s east-west divide. If we had a common view about this at the highest level, Ukraine could be issuing Schengen visas. To preserve Ukraine, we need integration. And a certain part of Ukraine has already integrated into Europe without asking anyone. If you spend several days in Donetsk Region and then several days in Lviv or Chernivtsi Region, you’ll see that these are two different Ukraines.
KP: President Viktor Yushchenko is apparently in favor of Ukraine’s integration with Europe and NATO. What needs to be done to achieve this?
AS: You know, I headed the delegation to the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Paris, where the presidents of Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia and Ukraine were invited. Two of them didn’t come. Guess who? Yushchenko didn’t come. He was very busy. I don’t know what with. And it was difficult for me to explain to the members of the Assembly why the president of a country that intends to enter NATO had not come. We cry about joining, but don’t take the first step.
KP: But joining NATO remains a controversial issue for Ukrainian society. Is there really such a need to join?
AS: NATO has been defined as part of Ukraine’s state policy. That’s it. This policy has to be implemented. If someone doesn’t like this, he has a right to express his will, to protest and so on. To preserve Ukraine we need to integrate into NATO and Europe.
KP: Getting back to you, how do you see your role in the Batkivshchyna party?
AS: I take responsibility for international contacts. Consequently, I’ve made a lot of trips to attend different meetings. We are developing Batkivshchyna as a European political force and discussing areas of cooperation. I also work with young people because I like them and I enjoy some popularity among them.
KP: First you were elected to parliament as an independent, weren’t you?
AS: Yes, that was in 2002. I was elected while still serving time in jail for my part in the “Ukraine without Kuchma!” campaign. People who voted for me didn’t look at what party I belonged to. They elected me for my struggles. Maybe some felt sorry for me, but most supported me because they couldn’t take part in the campaign themselves. These people came to Kyiv [to support President Viktor Yushchenko’s presidential bid] during the [2004] Orange Revolution.
KP: You were a prominent participant in the Orange Revolution, which brought Yushchenko to power. Do you feel that the president and members of his current circle betrayed the revolution?
AS: It was a betrayal of the Orange team when [Yulia] Tymoshenko was removed as premier [in fall 2005]. All the rest, including recent events, was only the consequences of that move. However, nobody expected that we [BYuT] would receive so many votes in the [March 26 general] elections and that [the pro-presidential] Our Ukraine would receive so little.
KP: Tymoshenko’s BYuT did better than expected in the March 26 parliamentary elections, but its popularity has dropped since then. How do you interpret this?
AS: We were partners of Yushchenko. We actively campaigned for a coalition [with Our Ukraine and the Socialists] and we lost because we encouraged a coalition that was not formed. In addition, there is distrust in the authorities in general in [Ukrainian] society. The opposition is also associated in people’s minds with the authorities. The drop in popularity could also be caused by Yulia Tymoshenko’s absence from the public for some time. But even according to the most pessimistic forecasts, we have maintained our popularity since March.
KP: What, in your opinion, was the reason why most members of the pro-presidential Our Ukraine party supported the parliamentary majority formed by the Regions, the Communists and the Socialists [in July 2006]?
AS: It’s clear: It was fear of Tymoshenko. Everyone knew about the negotiations. In Ukraine, if you want to keep something secret, you shouldn’t say or do anything. But it is impossible to avoid some things. A professional differs from an amateur in that he understands that he lost, but he should play till the end, because the most important is the result that can come tomorrow or in a year’s time.
KP: Would you support cancellation of the constitutional reforms that came into effect this year and weakened the authority of the president?
AS: We have never supported these political reforms and we won’t do this. But we won’t initiate their cancellation. It’s not our task today. Our task is to keep what we have today. However, the presidential form of a republic is important for Ukraine, with its different mentalities. As the opposition we can only propose some things while not allowing other things to happen.
KP: What are BYuT’s specific goals in this parliament?
AS: We still don’t have a law on the opposition. This is essential, and to change the agenda of the Verkhovna Rada. Our task is also to tell society honestly about illegal actions taken by the authorities.
KP: Some lawmakers from the BYuT faction break rank, for instance, when they voted for the new coalition headed by Regions. What will you do with them?
AS: We won’t expel them from the party or bloc because the law doesn’t allow this. They want this but we will not oblige them. We will deprive them of their mandates. We are working on this. There is such a mechanism.
KP: The pro-presidential Our Ukraine party is reportedly split over joining the Regions-led coalition. Could you see a possible merger with some members of this party?
AS: There will be an inter-faction merger. Such deputies will remain in their party and will be members of this inter-faction merger.
KP: You didn’t hold a government post under the Tymoshenko government. Would you like to one day?
AS: I don’t have such a strong desire to work in the government. The posts that I wanted when Tymoshenko was in power were already taken. But I am a politician and I am ready to use my skills both in the executive and the legislative branches of power.
KP: You are an active and well-known politician. Don’t you want to create your own party?
AS: Believe me, I don’t have such plans now. But if they appear, I will implement them.
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