The grandson of Mahatma Gandhi, the pre-eminent Indian political and spiritual leader until his assassination in 1948, recently visited Kyiv.
Rajmohan Gandhi, president of the Initiatives of Change Association, is also a famous author and scholar. He spent three days in the Ukrainian capital, where he lectured at Kyiv National University, participated in the forum “Trust: Easy or Hard?” and took part in a television show.
Gandhi is a research professor at the Center for South Asian and Middle Eastern Studies at University of Illinois in America. The Initiatives of Change Association that he leads has offices in 60 countries. Previously, he served as a member of the upper house of the Indian Parliament, edited Indian Express newspaper and led an Indian delegation to the United Nations Human Rights Commission in Geneva. His most famous book is a biography of his grandfather, entitled “Mohandas: A True Story of a Man, His People and an Empire.” Gandhi was born in 1935 in New Delhi, India.
Before he left for Sevastopol last week, Gandhi spoke with the Kyiv Post. The following are excerpts from the interview.
In all conflicts all over the world, each side always sees itself as a victim and the other side as an aggressor.
KP: How do you like Kyiv?
RG: First of all, let me say visiting Kyiv is part of my world tour as president of Initiatives of Change Association. I got a proposal to visit Kyiv as a participant of the “Trust: Easy or Hard?” forum.
Usually we do not talk to people with whom we do not trust and with whom we do not agree on something. So we do not have an opportunity to listen to their point of view. So one week can be spent reaching out to them. It can be done in family, in society as a whole, among political parties.
If after this week nothing changes, we can be back to the status quo. Speaking about Ukraine, it is an inspiration meeting so many young people here who are very active and full of enthusiasm.
KP: Do you believe the basic idea of your grandfather’s – that nonviolence can solve conflicts in the world now?
RG: In all conflicts all over the world, each side always sees itself as a victim and the other side as an aggressor. Dialogue is the only way to reach out to each other and solve the conflict. Media also play a huge role nowadays. They should show that all people have so much in common, that peaceful co-existence is good and fighting is bad. I am not saying countries should totally disarm, remove police and army. I am only saying anger, hatred and violence do not help. Any struggle for justice should be nonviolent.
KP: You met ex-Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko. What did you talk about?
RG: We had a very cordial meeting. He gave his account on the situation in Ukraine and showed me a big map of Ukraine on his wall. He said that he wants three things to happen in Ukraine: national renaissance, democracy and Europe. I told him about one basic thing in politics: that if you point a finger at somebody, there will be three other fingers pointing at you. He said: ‘Well a good politician can always point with his palm.’ (Laughs) I also told him the world faces profound challenges of unity. If Ukraine can find reconciliation within itself, it can be a great example for the world. The world is waiting for such an example.
Sometimes we, as people, think that big changes will happen if we just replace the government. We want politicians to change their behavior, but we do not think that first we have to change ours.
KP: The Orange Revolution was a true nonviolent struggle, yet it did not bring the changes people were waiting for. Do you think nonviolence failed in Ukraine? What did we do wrong?
RG: If a particular non-violent movement does not bring expected outcomes, it is not a reason to give up nonviolence. But it is a reason to question what the weakness of the movement was. Sometimes we, as people, think that big changes will happen if we just replace the government. We want politicians to change their behavior, but we do not think that first we have to change ours. What happened in India, for instance, is that former allies, who united over the common enemy, started fighting after they gained power. One member of Indian Parliament told me: "I have many requests from public every day, some ask me to remove injustice, some to bend the law in order to help someone." So I thought – if we, as people, want such special favors, why do we wonder if politicians want the same.”
KP: Do you have an advice for Ukraine?
RG: I am not here to give advice. I am not competent for that. I am here to learn and share my experience. And I believe that the combination of hard history, filled with suffering and talented people, a combination which Ukraine has, is a very promising one.
I am aware of deep divisions that exist in Ukraine. But I am also aware of a great desire to overcome them. My grandfather gave his life to bring Muslim and Hindu closer. But as a Hindu myself, I was filled with prejudice we have about Muslims and Pakistan in India.
Then I decided to write an objective biography of eight important Muslim leaders of India and Pakistan. When I started to do research, I figured I just could not open some books on the topic because their authors had a totally different point of view than me. I did not trust these books; I trusted my own version of history.
But I made myself open these books and study them. The willingness to listen to somebody you dislike is a part of the trust-building process. Apart from the willingness to listen, there should be another one – to forgive, sometimes for horrible crimes, for murder.
Even in India I have difficulties getting along with some groups – like Hindu extremists, who killed my grandfather. They thought he became too close to Muslims. Some of them want India to throw a nuclear bomb on Pakistan. Many of their views I may never agree with. But they are human just like me. Dialogue with them might change their thinking. Some of their arguments might change mine. So painful memories can gradually be healed if people listen to each other’s stories and try to understand.
Mahatma Gandhi
KP: You were 12 when your grandfather was killed. Do you remember him well?
RG: Oh yes, I remember him very well. I remember I heard my father calling him dad and I started to call him that myself, he didn’t mind. He was an extremely brave man. I recall taking part with him in a common Muslim prayer. After it was over some very angry Hindu men came to my grandfather and started yelling at him. They were mad that he, a Hindu man, was praying with Muslims. But my grandfather was not scared. He spoke to them very calmly and tried to explain his point.
Kyiv Post staff writer Svitlana Tuchynska can be reached at [email protected]
