Editor’s Note: Irina Khakamada, 55, is a Russian social activist, writer and commentator. She lost her bid for the presidency in 2004 against Russian President Vladimir Putin. She visited Ukraine on June 15 to take part in a public debate called “Free market capitalism has failed former Soviet states,” organized by the Foundation of Effective Governance, a policy think tank financed by Ukraine’s richest man, Rinat Akhmetov.
KP: After many years in big politics you made a shift to social and art projects and training activities. Are you planning to come back to politics one day?
IK: Not really. First, I don’t think that the goals I have may be achievable in Russia. Objectively, the current mindset of Russian people does not make me think that my liberal ideas will be generally supported.
KP: Let’s talk about Russia-Ukraine relations now. After the 2004 Orange Revolution, Ukraine advanced towards Europe. Now this pendulum is swinging towards Russia. What do the Russians think about it?
IK: Speaking about political and business elites, they are very much interested in this “swing.” And it’s not a big surprise, as Russia does want to re-establish its influence on post-Soviet space and get all the possible economic benefits from cooperation with its neighbors. As for ordinary people, they are also happy as they think that now it’s going to be easier for them to travel to Ukraine and Ukrainians will start traveling to Russia more.
KP: During the last five years, Ukraine didn’t get any favorable coverage in Russian media. Has it changed since the new president was elected in Ukraine?
IK: Russian television channels gave rather positive coverage to [President Viktor] Yanukovych’s accession to power. They picture it as a real breakthrough in Ukraine-Russia relations that would end controversies and spur economic cooperation.
KP: Some Ukrainian politicians are afraid that Ukraine will soon become a colony of Russia – can it really happen?
IK: When Ukraine starts talking about a threat of becoming Russia’s colony, it can be treated two ways – either as a primitive political speculation, or as a display of some historical inferiority complex. I can’t really explain where this complex comes from, as Ukraine is a pretty big European country with a strong political opposition and aspirations to integrate into the Western structures. So I don’t see any threats here. Another thing is if Yanukovych follows the footprints of his colleagues from Moscow and starts tightening the screws, gradually you’ll see that there is a little less liberty and little too much police. Then you’ll find special forces commandos beating up peaceful protesters, and so on. It’s a vicious cycle and I hope those who are in power in Ukraine will be wise enough to maintain those democratic traditions, work towards strengthening economic cooperation, fight corruption and create a better business environment.
KP: Ukraine’s authorities are trying to copy their Russian counterparts to a certain extent, but are there any features that the Ukrainian and Russian opposition have in common?
IK: The real opposition in Russia is so marginalized that it can’t even compete in elections, whereas Ukraine has a number of strong opposition parties whose leaders used to be in charge of the government and had a majority in parliament. They have sources of funding and support in the regions. You can’t really compare them with Russia’s opposition. Ukraine is much closer to European political traditions in this respect.
KP: But Ukraine’s opposition is dispersed, so it might be just a matter of time before it finds itself in the same shoes as the Russian one…
IK: If they do not unite for defending Ukraine’s national interests and don’t act in the best traditions of European political culture, but satisfy their personal ambitions and political egos, they all will be destroyed one by one.
KP: How will the economies of Russia and Ukraine develop in the next 5-10 years? Do they have a chance to become full-fledged players on the global market?
IK: For sure, Russia has better chances, because no matter how much the West crinkles its nose, it will still need Russian natural gas. So I think Russia can establish itself as a global player within the upcoming 10-15 years if it stops being merely a source of raw materials and starts developing an efficient economy, launching alternative energy sources, informational technologies, etc. Now [President Dmitry] Medvedev is actively involved in this super-mega project called ‘Kremnievaya Dolina’ [the Silicon Valley]. Ukraine is lagging behind so far, as it doesn’t have enough money to implement new technologies. The world is in recession, so no one is really rushing to invest in Ukraine. Its domestic investments are limited, export capacities are pretty modest and heavily dependent on its energy transit systems. But I think Ukraine doesn’t have to strive to become a global player. I would rather make an effort to become an efficient competitive European country. For example, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Denmark do not bother to become the top world economies, but they have pretty high living standard and seem to be happy with it.
KP: What are Russia’s true geopolitical and economic interests? It seems to be swinging between China and the States…
IK: Russia’s interests are way too vague and infantile. When Russia had some troubles with the U.S., it gave the finger to Washington and increased cooperation with China. When we have troubles with China, we run back to the States. So, it’s really hard to say what we want and who our strategic ally is. Territorially, Russia is closer to China, but it differs mentally. Russia can’t get closer to America, because they are permanently competing. I don’t know why, maybe it comes from the past confrontation of two world’s superpowers.
KP: The ‘reset’ of U.S.-Russia relations that has been announced by President Barack Obama and Medvedev – What does it mean?
IK: It’s a real breakthrough. First of all, despite the fact that the Democrats came to office in the U.S., they prefer to turn a blind eye to Russia’s violations of human rights and other problems. Democrats, unlike Republicans, have always criticized Russia for that … until now. And now the relations between Obama and Medvedev resemble those between George Bush Jr. and Vladimir Putin at the beginning of his reign. Both are enjoying mutual benefits.Russia wants to join the World Trade Organization. America wants to enlist Russia’s support in imposing sanctions against Iran (which is already happening in a subtle manner) and to get help in solving problems in Afghanistan.
KP: You see a lot of people in post-Soviet countries. Has the Soviet mentality vanished yet?
IK: It has, but only in the minds of the new generation of 20-30 year old big city dwellers. Russia’s provinces still live in the Soviet era. Ukrainians are more advanced in this respect. Still, many people have this fusion of the Soviet perception of reality and an inner sympathy towards Western European freedoms.
Kyiv Post staff writer Olesia Oleshko can be reached at [email protected].
