New transcript of hour-long conversation between Kuchma and Azarov purportedly reveals president's plans to take over commercial banking sector
ed by the Kyiv Post – of a key conversation from the latest Melnychenko tapes involving Sloviansky Bank and the presidential administration’s plans to take over the Ukrainian commercial banking sector. These tapes were made available by the International Press Institute in April and are currently being analyzed by Harvard University.
This transcript is unique in that it provides a full-length conversation of President Kuchma and one of his top aides – tax chief Mykola Azarov. It thus stands in contrast to earlier transcripts, which highlighted only segments of conversation. The following conversation is significant in that it illustrates quite clearly Mr. Azarov’s “activity.” He appears to be fighting everybody, skillfully manipulating the president and seeking to assume the successor’ s role. Another striking element of the transcript is the anti-Semitism demonstrated by both Kuchma and Azarov.
Transcriber’s Notes:
Z1.wav. special signs:
() a missing and an undecipherable part of the conversation involving one of the interlocutors;
(a phrase or a word) – precarious transcript;
/// – a mixed up and an incomprehensible conversation.
Brackets may occasionally contain the current time to ensure convenience in keeping track of what the dialogues are dealing with.
Some excerpts of this conversation have been previously published. Some significant corrections and specifications have been introduced in this version.
(1:10:38)
Kuchma: Let Azarov in, should he come.
Azarov: May come in, Leonid Danilovich ?
Kuchma: (yes,)
Kuchma: What?
Azarov: I would like to show you (Kuchma coughing). Leonid Danilovich, I will be reporting in brief on all points … So, on this very Sloviansky bank. So, well then, they are sure kick up such a big fuss.
We did not get ourselves busy with them; rather, we, so to speak, gathered pieces of evidence, selected the best tactics; and should get down to the nitty gritty, so to say, in a month or two. In the meantime, you accelerated what we were up to. That is why we busted them now. So, about what has been actually done so far. Well, today, a search is underway since February 7. However, taking into account a large quantity of documents to be checked out, the search will not be finished until (). We need to gather solid evidence to prove… We have got close to it, having identified persons who are, as the likes of Boldyrev who is some eh-eh-eh. Well, let me proceed in an orderly manner () on that Boldyrev. The most significant thing is that we have established a number of natural persons keeping bank operations under their control (reading); there are, in fact, opened depositor’s bank accounts, with sums in cash amounting to several dozens of millions in US dollars. What is being determined today is whether these sums have a lawful origin and whether significant interests have been lawfully ascribed to a bank expenditure item. But what I would like to stress is that the Department for Measures against Organized Crime has also been, well, after this Feldman for one and a half years, say, () and… they found out nothing on him, in actual fact. But what we have managed to find out is the following. Well, he is, eh-eh, the bank founder; 19,7 percent, and according to the law, up to 20 percent, he is getting in non-taxable dividends.
Kuchma: what do you mean. What kind of – .
Azarov (raising his voice intonation): It appears further that the institution making up 36 percent in authorized capital is Feldman-owned. This is what we have found out today. And if that is the case, then he is a liable person who should be brought to justice as a criminal.
Kuchma: Well, jot it down to submit and make a motion thereof; so it comes down to seventy-five persons ().
Azarov: Privat-bank. It is also a matter we get ourselves busy with. A large amount of work is being done to gather pieces of evidence, including these ones as far as the Privat-bank is concerned. So, it will take several more transactions that Yasen – there is such an organization in the city of Dnipropetrovsk – has so far conducted, applying promissory note-related schemes involving approximately 6.6 million. This episode appears to be, well, appropriate. Well, with some more points where he was buying up Aval [Bank] promissory notes via phony businesses. To be brief, what are the grounds available now, that is, to take measures. Well, we are certainly keeping track of that Feldman. That’s how.
Kuchma: Just look at his credits. (sounding doubtful). Well, these are the old ones…
Azarov (cheerfully): What difference does it make!
Kuchma: So…..
Azarov: years 96-97, right?
Kuchma: On Kryvy Rih, on mining and enriching plants.
Azarov: On mining and enriching plants.
Kuchma: When did he give credits at 300 percent.
Azarov: Yes, yes, all that stuff.
Kuchma: Credits which did not exist,
Azarov: There appears to have been an accident; I do not know whether you know about it; they blew up his motor boat. Feldman’s motor boat, the blast took place last year. Today, investigation into a true cause of the blast and Feldman’s possible ties with criminal groupings is underway. What is underway in the Dnipropetrovsk-based affiliated branch of the Sloviansky bank are –
Kuchma: And their head office is in the city of Zaporizhzhya, isn’t it?
Azarov: Both here and there!
Kuchma: Did you do that in Zaporizhzhya as well?
Azarov: Yes, yes, yes. But the most interesting thing is that we have found out about that Boldyrev (). So, he is Boldyrev Mark Ram-, Mark Romovich, Mark (stressing) Romovich. He is the First Trading Bank Incorporation deputy head. This is that very First Trading Bank Incorporation in Nauru where the major hard currency resources have been siphoned out abroad and where phony credits have been legalized. That’s how. Today, eh-eh-eh, well, we are looking for him, he is wanted, that Boldyrev.
Kuchma: Who, Boldyrev ?
Azarov: Yes, he immediately vanished as soon as we began (getting ourselves busy with him). He is a citizen of Russia; this is what he is. For all that, the most important thing, I believe, we shall be successful in proving that all these transactions have been carried out in that very Dnipropetrovsk. No money has ever been transferred over to either some Nauru or abroad; what was actually there was a terminal installed in his flat in Dnipropetrovsk. This what we are doing at the moment. So, the principal persons brought to justice now are –
Kuchma: Nauru – is it a Japanese city?
Azarov: No, this is the Republic of Nauru.
Kuchma: Republic of Nauru?
Azarov: Right, You must remember it on ()
Kuchma: Ahaa.
Azarov: This is the Republic of Nauru. It boasts of 64 correspondent’s accounts at that First Trading Bank Incorporation. So, Feldman, Shevtsova, Tolokolnikov, Yakimenko – the four representing a grouping which has been thinking up everything and has been put it into effect, so to speak. Whom he has engaged also over that time… Well, first is eh-eh-eh.
Kuchma: Do you bug his calls?
Azarov: Yes, yes, so, on the 8th, he arrived in Kyiv by Yulia’s plane along with [Dnipropetrovsk Governorr] Shvets… So, well, he has been at yours…
Kuchma: I told him () he asked let () me neither has anything to do with it nor take any part.
Azarov: The external surveillance agents then established that he visited Kinakh and spent more than 50 minutes at his office room. (reading with a patter) “Relying on the recently obtained information, he intensively discussed the issue on immediate lifting the blockage on the correspondent’s bank account () (transferring) the necessary monetary resources from the foreign depositor’ s account.”
So, the decision has been taken two times. Well, I did not, in principle, () four times () we instituted (proceedings), prosecutor in Dnipropetrovsk, prosecutor in Zaporizhzhya (dismissed proceedings); speaking in general, obtaining search warrants requires much effort; well, it is OK that Mikhail Vasilevich is, so to speak, getting (TseU ?) on Mondays.
Kuchma: I may call Shchur and tell him, listen, son of the bitch, if you let this matter slip, you, son of the bitch, are going to step down from your post.
Azarov: No, there is not need for it now.
Kuchma: No need.
Azarov: They should not even feel alarmed that we are – I do not want under any circumstances to let them know that some person issues orders and instructions. Well, usual measures are being taken; so, (reading) “the investigative measures to establish the evidence of numerous talks held by the board head Yakimenko with Tolstoi, a head of the regional National Bank of Ukraine division head in Zaporizhzhya oblast, who are informing Yakimenko in detail on what measures being taken. Tolstoi’ s daughter – Iryna Alekseyevna is a founder of a number of commercial businesses in the city of Zaporizhzhya, such as, the Inter, the Dnipro, the Avtotrade, the Ahroresursy and the Amatek. So, all contacts are being made via that Sloviansky bank. Up to 3 million US dollars have been transferred abroad via the Sloviansky bank from these businesses this year alone. Besides, such a person as Dvoretsky, employed as a head, is being brought to justice.
Kuchma: (gently speaking) But they say he is a talented guy, isn’t he ?
Azarov: Who?
Kuchma: As far as I can remember, he is a banker in Zaporizhzhya isn’t he?
Azarov: (halting in his speech and sighing) well, there appear such persons as Dvoretsky, Zaslavsky (disdainfully speaking) – only Jews are there.
Kuchma: Certainly, they are.
Azarov: So, we are still gathering that evidence. Yesterday, Feldman came to the Cabinet of Ministers. Well, external surveillance agents followed him but stopped short. After all, they will not go as far as ()
Kuchma: At Yulia’s?
Azarov: I do not know whether at Yulia’ s, but he came to Lisitsky’s, for sure; so he came to Yushchenko’s as well, that’s how. Well, Lisitsky began delicately worming out of me today what and how everything goes. Well, I told him, so to speak, Viktor Ivanovich, this bank has been under surveillance for quite a long time. There are a number of serious acts of violation the bank is committing. We are, therefore, doing our usual job. I promised him a total impartiality, the total one, that’s how. Well, Viktor Andreyevich [Yushchenko], he hinted () a normal, as far as this bank is concerned. Well, I take this into account, meaning, we are not going to get too tough with them; we shall be unbiased in doing our job. What other stuff I could tell him?
Kuchma: ()
Azarov: Yes, () we shall be unbiased (sighing).
Kuchma: So, I have made a list, so to speak, of the largest banks specifically for you to have a better idea what kind bank it is. [Sloviansky] is ranked the first. There is, in general, () a list…..
Kuchma: (surprisingly) our, Ukrainian one?
Azarov: That’s right, it is rated the first in terms of profits made from its transactions. However, it does not let its profits be revealed. To consider how much our banks paid in taxes…
Kuchma: Who are also among founders () ? Are there any renowned names?
Azarov: To speak frankly, I did not look it up because so much effort is concentrated on Feldman now. That’s why I am looking up and we are all out to incriminate Feldman, because he should be incriminated in a way so that we won’t have to release him go later, after all.
Kuchma: Sure, he should be.
Azarov: In other words, we, so to speak, should form such a documentation base that would enable us to incarcerate him and then we could find all the rest. I told you on the phone already () about eavesdropped conversations. He talked to Yulia [Tymoshenko] several times. Well, that con
