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Opinion

Bogeyman returns, but he is no longer a threat

3 December 2008, 19:54 | Taras Kuzio, Special to Kyiv Post
Bogeyman returns, but he is no longer a threat
Medvedchuk is spent as a political force in Ukraine

Kyiv is abuzz with rumors that Ukraine’s arch-villain, grey cardinal and Darth Vader all wrapped into one – Victor Medvedchuk – is set to make a political comeback. The story reminds me of one’s childhood when our parents would warn us to be good or else the bogeyman would come and get us in the night. Well, the bogeyman never came.

Medvedchuk’s public political career is finished. Rumors about his return have more to do with Ukraine’s deep-seated political crisis that has sadly spawned chatter along the lines of “It was at least better under [former President Leonid] Kuchma.” Of course, it wasn’t.

Nevertheless, such sentiments are understandable following four years of unfulfilled promises, one crisis after another, endless elections that return the same forces, incompetence and a total lack of leadership.

Opinion polls tell the story. In 2005-2007, President Victor Yushchenko dropped from being Ukraine’s most popular leader to third place. Yushchenko had a brief resurgence in 2007, when he returned to second-place in popularity after he uncharacteristically showed some leadership skills. This year has been catastrophic for Yushchenko. Ukrainians must be wondering who his chief of staff, Medvedchuk protege Victor Baloha, is really working for?

Now, polls show only 3.3 percent support for the president. Ukrainians would rather have ex-Prime Minister Victor Yanukovych and the current premier, Yulia Tymoshenko, solve their crises. Add to this rudderless ship three other factors – infighting among the elite, deteriorating relations with Russia and the global financial crisis – and it is understandable why Ukrainians are focused on conspiracy theories and the return of ‘bogeymen.’

Is a return to “Kuchmism” possible, though? This is almost impossible because of the democratic breakthrough four years ago that we know as the Orange Revolution. Pro-Western political forces are divided and often inept, but nevertheless have won four elections since 2002.

Medvedchuk the bogeyman has long given Yushchenko sleepless nights. But this is more a product of the president’s world view. Yushchenko always had the “good czar, bad boyars” syndrome. He refused to support Tymoshenko’s campaign for Kuchma’s impeachment and, as president, he de facto gave Kuchma immunity. Yushchenko instead directed his wrath at Medvedchuk, Kuchma’s chief of staff.

Medvedchuk the bogeyman should be divided into two parts.

The first is his political force, the Social Democratic Party of Ukraine (united). The SDPU(o) entered parliament on two occasions, in 1998 and 2002, only by virtue of access to state-administrative resources. In 1998, the SDPU(o) was tipped just over the 4 percent threshold by buying votes transferred to it from the Agrarian Party. It failed to enter the 2006 parliament and did not even bother to run in 2007. It is finished politically.

There are unconfirmed rumors that the SDPU(o) is considering merging with the Party of Regions. Don’t hold your breath. There is no warmth between Medvedchuk and Yanukovych, as the latter will never forget that the former (with Kuchma) in effect “betrayed” him after the second round of the 2004 presidential elections.

The second factor, the lingering influence of a Byzantine political culture that became synonymous with Medvedchuk, is more important. One of the many disappointments of the Yushchenko administration has been the failure to change the nature in which politics is undertaken. Intrigue, backroom deals, cynicism, opportunism and a Byzantine approach continue to dominate.

An example was the removal of Arseniy Yatsenyuk as parliamentary speaker, made possible by 10 votes donated by Baloha. It is the president’s tolerance of Baloha’s Byzantine antics, despite the fact that they undermine his popularity, that continues to leave Medvedchuk’s influence in place. Baloha, a protege of Medvedchuk, is the quintessential product of Ukraine’s corrupt and criminal transition to a market economy in the 1990s. His home region of Transcarpathia, with its lucrative and corrupt cross-border trade, was an SDPU(o) stronghold until 2004. Baloha was an SDPU(o) loyalist until business issues divided them in 2002. Then he switched to Our Ukraine. Baloha’s loyalties remain to himself, not to Yushchenko.

During the late Kuchma era and following the Orange Revolution, former senior SDPU(o) members moved into all three major political forces: the Party of Regions, the Bloc of Yulia Tymoshenko and Our Ukraine. It remains unclear why Tymoshenko, Ukraine’s most popular politician, needs the services of such discredited former SDPU(o) politicians.

Medvedchuk’s alleged role is two-fold: first, as a lobbyist in the Supreme Court and second, as a go-between with Russia. The fierce battles between political forces have led to abuse of the rule of law by all sides. As for go-betweens, anybody who knows Tymoshenko also knows that her supreme self-confidence means that she needs no go-betweens to deal with domestic and foreign interlocutors.

The bogeyman is not the threat to Ukraine’s young democracy. The threat comes from the inability of pro-Western democratic forces to remain united and to decisively break with the Kuchma era. Medvedchuk will continue to have a role in Ukrainian politics only as long as presidents continue to employ the likes of Baloha. Medvedchuk already returned two years ago to Ukrainian politics, renamed as Baloha and re-employed by the president.

Taras Kuzio is editor of the bi-monthly Ukraine Analyst and teaches in the Institute of European, Russian and Eurasian Studies, Carleton University, Ottawa.

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Guest  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 17:56
Elmer;
Go to the web and research who he works for: Jamestown Foundations Eurasia Monitor, a US based foundation funded by National Endowment for Democracy - NED. NED was created by Reagan 1984 as a covert CIA organization. Both Jamestown and NED have a host of former CIA & Nstional Security directors on their boards. Once he worked for a CIA fronted organization he has a agenda, he got paid with US intelligence money and he is part of that world. Why Kuzio kisses Yulia\'s ass is beyond me, but he has a anti-Yushchenko adgenda. I\'m not a proponate of conspiracy theories but Kuzio is not independent and he sold out a long time ago working for the US & British intelligece organizations.
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elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 22:19
You are full of it - you don\'t know what you are talking about. Find me anything about the CIA in the web site - it\'s simply not there, and it\'s not a front.

Here is where their support comes from: http://www.jamestown.org/suppor t/

Do you understand what a 501(c)(3) organization is?

Your repetition of baseless accusations does NOT make them true. There is nothing \"covert\" about them. Here are the board members: http://www.jamestown.org/aboutu s/boardmembers/

2 of them, Gaylord and Keating, have Oklahoma backgrounds. Marshall Goldman is a professor.

You will find Dr. Kuzio, along with MANY others, listed under experts and authors. They contribute articles. US intelligence money has nothing to do with it. The Jamestown Foundation solicits charitable contributions, which are tax-deductible. You need to inform yourself before you spout nonsense and conspiracy theories. Dr. Kuzio is making an analysis. If you don\'t agree, come up with SUBSTANCE - not \"conspiracy\"
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Guest  (Guest) | 12.12.2008, 23:54
I agree about the CIA not being the paymasters. Tymoshenko is not in America\'s interests. Russia as the source is much more credible. Having Tymoshenko replace Yushchenko is in Putin\'s interest. She\'s much more \"flexible\".
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elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 22:26
Here is the link to their web site where they solicit charitable contributions: http://www.jamestown.org/aboutu s/supportjamestown/

Rather than making the sovok-style accusations about the CIA, you ought to learn to engage in discussion based on FACTS, not baseless accusations. It is quite obvious that you don\'t understand the way democratic institutions in true democracies work, so you equate everything to \"conspiracy\" - Pavlov dog reflex style, like a good little sovok.

You thing Medvedchuk is good for Ukraine? Are you proud of the Ukrainian government? I\'m not. Do you like the fact that oligarchs have stolen virtually everything in Ukraine, through abuse of government, and are trying to continue to do so? I don\'t.

Sit back and stop huffing and puffing about conspiracies - you might learn something. And if you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to add - bring it, by all means.
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Guest  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 16:32
IIts the BogeyWOMAN that you have to worry about.
Was she business partner of Lazarenko - the former PM who got arrested and spent time in US jails for monery laundering ?
Was she arrested in Moscow for trasporting large sums of unreported currency, and this gave rise to her being banned entry iin Russia n her first go around as PM ?
Is she not involve currently, maybe not directly but with her family and friends, in various oil and gas businesses ?
Why did she change her anti-russian tone after meeting Putin behind closed doors in February 2008 ? and her barking against russian interests turned into songs of praise following her August visit ?
She sold out Ukraine for payolla - Kuzio sold out for ....???
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elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 16:44
Well, \"Guest,\" you can go to Dr. Kuzio\'s web site and see all of his publications and his credentials. Dr. Kuzio is not \"selling out\" for anything or anyone. If Tymoshenko mouths reform, and then simply keeps the same old mafia-type thugs at her side, then she deserves to be roundly and severely criticized - just like the others, like Yanukovych and Akhmetov and Pliushch and the rest. roosha has banned entry for MORE than one Ukrainian official, they are paranoid in roosha and they invent lots of things to suit their pleasure. If you\'ve got proof that she is using government to further the \"various\" oil and gas businesses of family and friends - by all means, bring it. If true, that needs to be cleaned up, along with what Zviahislky and Firtash and the rest are still continuing to do in Ukraine. The problem here is not Dr. Kuzio - it is people like you who can\'t think straight. If you see a problem - bring a solution. Don\'t accuse Dr. Kuzio - he\'s not the cause.
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Guest  (Guest) | 12.12.2008, 22:56
If Tymoshenko mouths reform, and then simply keeps the same old mafia-type thugs at her side, then she deserves to be roundly and severely criticized - just like the others. Which she does. So how come Kuzio has never ever criticized her?
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Taras Kuzio  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 16:03
This as cut by the editors from the published text:

During the late Kuchma era and following the Orange Revolution former senior SDPUo members moved into all three major political forces: the Party of Regions, Tymoshenko bloc (BYuT) and Our Ukraine. Discredited former SDPUo deputies such as Bohdan Hubsky, who advised Yanukovych in the Central Election Commission, should have no place in BYuT. It remains unclear why Prime Minister Tymoshenko, Ukraine’s most popular politician, needs the services of such discredited former SDPUo politicians who reduce her popularity in Kyiv.
Medvedchuk’s alleged role is two-fold.
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Guest  (Guest) | 12.12.2008, 23:05
Why does she need someone like Medvedchuk? Because she might be the most popular politician but so far she hasn\'t managed to get the RADA to work for more than a few days for nearly a year nor for some weeks now to put together a governing coalition or to carry out any of her policies. What has she accomplished? How about a list? She stuck in a major rift with the President and can\'t come to terms with the Party of the Regions. She certainly could do with a helping hand.
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Taras Kuzio  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 15:55
How pathetic when people make things up just to make ridiculous and unfounded criticisms.
I have never met in person Viktor Yushchenko and have never sought to meet him. Why would I want to?
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Guest  (Guest) | 12.12.2008, 22:58
Why? It\'s very difficult to not to believe that any scholar or jourmalist who takes himself seriously wouldn\'t want to meet Ukraine\'s President.
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Scholars for Hire  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 15:50
Why would Yushchenko waste his time meeting with someone like Kuzio. He chronicles things that his paymasters order and conveniently misses other objective issues. Maybe that\'s why George Washington University sent him back to Ottawa. Its a shame that Kyiv Post gives so much free space to this guy -- it only allows him to go back to his BYUT masters and ask for more money. Good thing is very few people believe this scholar for hire. Hey Taras, how much would you cost to do an insider expose on Tymoshenko and the family business of Shawn and Evgenia?
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elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 16:49
If you\'ve got proof, moron, bring it. Otherwise, shut up. You\'re not doing anything constructive, you\'re just peeing and telling everyone it\'s raining. If you\'ve got something that needs to be \"exposed\" about corruption in government - bring it, and let\'s hear all about it. Otherwise, shut up.
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Ugly Byut  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 15:44
This article is more wishful thinking than an actual depiction of the role Medvedchuk plays in Ukrainian politics. Too bad such an esteemed \"paid scholar\" cannot see that Medvedchuk heads not only Russia\'s 5th column in Ukraine, but also the \"bandit\" 5th column in the BYUT party headed by Messrs Gubskiy, Portnov and Pysarenko. These guys are the \"beloved friends\" of Tymoshenko, who sign Kuzio\'s paycheck as a mouthpiece for the BYUT party. These are the same guys that swindled $billions out of foreign investors in the Kyiv region and are extorting billions more in Cherkassy and other regions. This is the \"justice\" that BYUT has been fighting for since the orange revolution. Incidentally, a revolution that Portnov \"would have nothing to do with.\" Open your Canadian eyes and forget the paycheck!
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elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 16:55
If you\'ve got proof, then write an article about it. The article that Dr. Kuzio wrote above, in case you missed it, is not about whitewashing BYuT. It is about why Medvedchuk is not being employed by BYuT, as opposed to whether he should or should not be employed by BYuT. And most certainly, a thug like Medvedchuk should not be employed by BYuT. If you\'ve got proof to the contrary, point to it, and bring it, and make your contribution to cleaning up the government in Ukraine. And, again, Dr. Kuzio did not cause bad government in Ukraine - Ukrainians did that all by their lonesome.
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elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 08:02
It just hit me like a ton of bricks, Freddy boy. At first I thought, gee, the chap\'s from Canada. But then you start talking about caning in the US Senate, and the US invading Canada as if US-Canada relations are just like Ukraine-roosha, which they are not, and then WHAM-O - Freddy, you are with Manafort or with Covington and Burling, or with some other Western PR firm hired by Akhmetov and the mafia thugs in Donetsk/Dnipropetrovsk. See, Akhmetov just hired Covington and Burling, like a moron, to suck money out of him, using lobbyists from the Klinton administration. And Manafort and the boys taught the mafia thugs in silly Donbass how to use public relations. \'Fess up, Fred, you are getting sheckels to make it seem as if contract killings and suicides and mucking about with the constitution are just part of everyday fun in countries other than Ukraine, and so Ukraine should continue to play mafia. Come on, Freddy boy, I can smell ya\', buddy.
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Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 10.12.2008, 12:25
No, no. No. No. No. and No.

Sorry, I\'m actually a somewhat disinterested observer who used to date a woman whose family was Ukrainian.

Look, I agree with you that Ukraine\'s got big problems. But most of the things that you describe sound very much like \"democracy\". With two parties that can\'t stand the smell of each other trying to somehow hold things together. That\'s what democracy REALLY IS. Sorry if you\'re disappointed. It doesn\'t turn politicians into angels (or even make them especially law-abiding).

If people have broken the law, then you\'ve got two parties who are each fabulously interested in catching the bad guys. At least the bad guys from the other party.

And \"mucking about\" with the Constitution IS a daily and ongoing occurrence in the US. There are \"constitutional\" lawyers who spend their entire career preparing various more or less farcical arguments to present to the Supreme Court...
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Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 10.12.2008, 12:39
I\'m not saying that any criminal activities are -good-. I\'m saying that you have a democratic government where the other party (at least) has the proper incentives to catch the bad guys. And put them on trial and in jail, where they belong - as opposed to ranting about it in the newspaper where the burden of evidence and proof is somewhat lacking.

Rather than pointing you to more ancient history (eg the duel between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr), read yesterdays newspaper from Chicago... The governor of Illinois was arrested for attempting to sell the Senate seat that will be empty when B. Obama takes over as president...

If democracy is the cure, it also looks a lot like the disease. Ukraine appears to have a REAL democracy - not a facade in front of some authoritarian government. Not a 3rd world democracy perpetrated by some cheesy 3rd world hellhole so curry favor with Western democracies.

These are good things. God help you.
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Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 10.12.2008, 13:02
Since I seem to be doing such a good job, would you mind directing me to one of these PR firms. Maybe I could make a few bucks. :)

PR firms and big advertising $$ are also part (probably way too big a part) of democratic politics. There was probably a billion dollars spent on the US presidential campaign, and huge amounts spent on political campaigns for governors, senators, representatives etc etc.

It\'s pretty ugly sometimes.

If political parties here use rhetoric that is somewhat \"toned down\" rather than calling each other gangsters and criminals, it\'s partly because they\'ve learned that they do better if they call each other nice names. Politician, statesman, etc. sound better. Or maybe they really are better now than they used to be since the system itself tends to weed out any flagrantly criminal types before they can get to high office...

Ukraine hasn\'t had 200+ years to smooth out the rough edges. But you really do seem to have a democracy.
Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 10.12.2008, 13:27
So, as far as helpful suggestions I think I can summarize as follows:

1) Introduce the fillibuster into the Ukrainian parliament. It serves the same purpose as the current rugby-league actions, but is totally boring and much less photogenic. Boring the other side to tears so that they finally compromise in some way is a truly democratic tradition.

2) Consider the use of dueling pistols as a replacement for contract killings. Its more civilized.

3) Otherwise, stay right on course and survive the next few years as a real (but still somewhat unsteady) democracy.
elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 19:02
Fred, stay with me, here, buddy, because this is the most impressive part. Up until a short time ago, the Speaker of Parliament was a very likeable, highly intelligent and capably young guy named Yatseniuk. I would even venture to say that he would have made a great speaker of the Canadian parliament. Not so in Ukraine - turns out he was too independent for Pres Yushchenko. So after Pres Yushchenko\'s party walked out of the Orange Coalition, the Parliament dumped him - with the help of votes from the party of Victor Baloha - who is a thug, and who heads the prez\'s secretariat. They threw him under a bus. So now, Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, and the oligarchs behind them, are dancing with each other in public. They are trying to figure out whether each side can trust the other, without Yushchenko. See, with Yushchenko, it\'s sort of a Mexican standoff. Tymoshenko won\'t answer the questions of the press - so much for \"open, honest and transparent\" government.
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 19:09
To continue - however, they are all throwing out \"trial balloons\" in public. If Tymo and Yanuk get in bed with each other, Prez Yushchenko said \"he won\'t permit it\" - meaning most likely that he\'ll try to dissolve the Parliament. Odd, because Yushchenko himself crawled into bed with Yanuk, and keeps threatening to do so. See, it\'s all about controlling government assets and the related income stream. Each group of oligarchs got fat and wealthy from crooked privatization deals. So they want to continue the \"political elite\" party list system, because that means they don\'t have to represent the people, like in Canada. That means that they continue to hold on to their assets and income streams of various sorts. And to cover it all up, they\'ve hired, or learned from, Western PR firms. They are all mouthing the words \"we need to consider the national interest\" - but they mean the opposite, because, literally, there are millions/billions of dollars at stake. Pretty impressive, eh?
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Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 07.12.2008, 02:17
Actually, we\'re thinking about changing the name here from \"the United States\" to just, \"United States\" in order to show our solidarity. People in \"the Phillipines\" will then almost certainly be forced to change also.

Relations between Canada and the US in some ways parallel relations between Ukraine and Russia. Quite similar in many regards, yet with different politics. A huge border, that hasn\'t seen any military activity since the early 1800s when the Canadians invaded and stole 1/2 of Niagara Falls. And the Candians DO gripe sometimes when the US navy infringes on their territorial waters in the Arctic. But do we listen???

I can see that any attempt at humor is probably not appreciated. Sorry. We had a period in the US that was far from humorous - it was called the Civil War and was far more destructive than any other war the US has ever been involved in.
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Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 07.12.2008, 02:22
It\'s obvious that Ukraine has more than its fair share of troubles, I merely point out that several very unpleasant and counter-productive alternatives have been avoided.

Politics seems rather savage there. On the other hand, the politicians seem to have always been public-spirited enough (or self-interested enough) to pull back from disaster.

I won\'t quote Winston Churchill about the merits of democracy, but merely state that a country that is run by two or more gangs of thieves has been shown to operate more effectively in the long-term than a country that is run by a single gang of thieves.
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Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 07.12.2008, 02:45
As far as manners go in Parliament, I would refer you to the case of Charles Sumner, Senator from Massachusetts, who was beaten practically to death in the US Senate chamber (1856). Democracy hasn\'t always been quite as tame as it now usually appears to be in more established democracies.

However, the need for physical size and strength as one of the attributes of a successful politician was lessened (at least in the US) by the invention of the fillibuster, where one politician is permitted to hold the floor for as long as he can keep talking. A gift for \"long-winded oration\" and a certain amount of stamina are now considered a plus.

And as far as \"arguing over the Constitution\" goes, well, the US has refined that into practically an art form - practiced continually in various more or less bizarre manifestations since about 1805.
elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 06:13
Uh, Fred, buddy, you\'re just not gettin\' it, son. I\'m very familiar with the Senate history of cane beatings, which is why the rules say that they have to refer to each other as \"the Gentleman from \". But, son, in Ukraine, they were either killing each other, or they were killing themselves. Vyacheslav Chornovil was killed in an arranged auto \"accident.\" His son, Taras, up until recently, was a member of the Party of Regions, who most likely killed him. The guy who ordered the beheading of the journalist was the former prez of Ukraine, Kuchma - it\'s on tape, Fred. Kuchma\'s son-in-law is the Jewish guy, Pinchuk, whose wife just bought a $100 million mansion in Londongrad. When the current prez, Yushchenko, got poisoned with dioxin - the most lethal dose in history - there were quite a few govt officials who committed \"suicide\" - with shots or stabs to the back of the head, if you get my meaning, when the investigation started. They take their politics seriously.
elmer  (Guest) | 08.12.2008, 06:21
Uh, Fred, son, it\'s BIG money. There is nothing efficient currently in Ukraine at all, (you obviously missed the bit about horridly inefficient centralized hot water and heat) and it\'s all, in effect, one gang of thieves - the \"political elite.\" And they won\'t let go. Try to start a business in Ukraine.
I\'m also very familiar with the development of the constitution and its interpretation in the US, Fred. But, see, in Ukraine, currently, they change the Constitution on a whim, unlike the process in the US. Currently, the boys and girls are putting out trial balloons about changing the constitution from a Presidential-parliamentary form of government, to a parliamentary form of government, with a eunucy prez elected by the parliament, not the people. That\'s because too many people have caught on to the shenanigans of the thugs in power. So now they\'re going to change the rules to try to fool the people again. Is any of this sinking in? It\'s not a joke - or maybe a bad one.
Fred Flintstone  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 03:00
First of all, I want to make perfectly clear that I don\'t work for the CIA. Fred Flintstone is my REAL name and has nothing to do with a fictional early-1960\'s cartoon character.

It looks like there\'s plenty to be upset about these days in the Ukraine, and having economic calamity seemingly everywere doesn\'t help. (Have you read the news from CANADA - freaking\' ever so boring, stable and milque-toast flavored CANADA just had the Prime Minister suspend the Canadian Parliament until mid-January so that they wouldn\'t pass a no-confidence vote sometime next week and replace his minority government with a different coalition. Anyway, if CANADA has trouble you know that hurricanes must really be blowing somewhere).

I\'m impressed that Ukraine has been able to hold everything together so far. Really impressed. It hasn\'t been a bit like 1956 (Soviet invasion of Hungary) 1961 (Berlin Wall) 1968 (Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia) or even 1981 (Polish Martial Law). Great work!
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 03:59
Fred, your positive attitude is truly appreciated. Let\'s start out with \"the Ukraine\" - it\'s Ukraine. The other way is like saying \"the Canada.\" Let\'s see - the roads in Ukraine are so full of chuck holes, they\'re not fit for cows. The mail does not run. People drive like idiots over 100 miles per hour, usually drunk, and kill people. They even drive on the sidewalks. The mail is not running. Bribery is an everyday fact of life, from top to bottom. If you go in the Kyiv Metro and other places, people, in groups, literally squeeze you so they can pick your pockets. Or they simply cut the straps off your purse. People keep blowing up in coal mines, while oligarchs like Zviahilsky keep collecting money off them, while the Party of Regions pretends it has no idea who owns the mines. The hot water, provided on a centralized, horridly inefficient basis, doesn\'t work. Same with heat, also provided on a horridly inefficient basis. Except if you are an oligarch. Yep, impressive.
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 04:05
But wait, Fred, there\'s more! The \"political elite,\" every one of them, has been lying to the populace. They were supposed to make \"one law for all\" by eliminating absolute immunity for members of Parliament - whoops, they LIED! They keep claiming that they are \"working for the people\" - they LIED! Does Canada\'s Prime Minister have a son in the Canadian Parliament? Guess what - the former Prime Minister\'s son, Yanukovych, is in the Ukrainian Parliament - he plays billiards. How did he get there? Well, people in Ukraine have no idea for whom they are voting - they vote for \"party lists,\" unlike in Canada, where people vote for individual candidates based on voting districts. The poisoning of President Yushchenko is still unsolved. Lazarenko, the former PM who was convicted in California for money laundering, who stole millions of Ukrainian dollars, announced his intent to run for office. Yep, I\'m impressed!
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 04:11
But wait, Fred, there\'s more! Does Canada have an oligarch worth over $10 billion, who is a member of Parliament AND the beneficiary of a government concession to drill for government oil and gas? Ukraine does - his name is Akhmetov, and the mysterious transfer of the winning bid from a third entity to his British Virgin Islands company was approved not only by his fellow/buddy in the Party of Regions, Yanukovych, but also by - the President of Ukraine! Does the mayor in Torontor participate, along with other cronies from assorted parties, in land grabs? The mayor of Kyiv does - he\'s a space cadet. He bought his votes to become mayor of Kyiv - it didn\'t cost that much on a per vote basis. The Ukrainian Parliament has set a record not only for fist fights and rugby-type mauls and scrums (I used to play rugby, so I know), but also - for NOT being in session for about the past 2 years, and for NOT having a speaker. Impressed? I am - in a BIG way.
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 04:22
But wait, Fred, there\'s more! The mail is not running in Ukraine - just try to get a letter in from overseas. You want to send an overnight package to Ukraine, via DHL or some other overnight courier? Not a chance - it gets held up in customs for a while. How many of Canada\'s Parliament members have Mercedes, Bentleys, yachts, jets, mansion, overseas and offshore bank accounts, Louis Vutton clothes, etc. - on reported income of about $30,000 per year, if that? Ukraine does - out of 450 members of Parliament, guess how many are billionaires and millionaires - on reported income of about $30,000 per year? Does Canada\'s government buy or sell any oil and gas? Ukraine\'s does - but you have to use shady intermediaries like RosUkrEnergo, which noone knows what it does, and is 50% Ukrainian thug crooks, and 50% rooshan Gazprom thug crooks taking care of their own. Does Canada have any foreign navy basis in its waters and on its shores? Ukraine does - the rooshan Black Sea Fleet. Fun?
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 04:31
Hey, Fred, the rooshan Black Sea Fleet was used to invade and bomb the heck out of Georgia this year. Canada have anyting like that? Plus, in Crimea, there are a bunch of rooskie sovoks running around screaming about how Crimea is really roosha. Ain\'t that fun? Still impressed? I am, Fred. How hard is it to start a business in Canada, Fred? Try starting one in Ukraine, without having to resort to payoffs, bribes and assorted other sundry \"economic lubrications\" to people in and out of government. Impressed? I am!!!! In Ukraine, only 25% of the agricultural potential is developed. Impressed? I am!!! Ever try adopting a kid in Ukraine, Fred? You have to use a \"facilitator\" - otherwise, you get bupkus. Impressed? I am. The biggest movie in Ukraine is \"Blonde Ambition\", with Jessica Simpson. Impressed? I am. And right now, it seems that everything will continue to be divided between 2 oligarch groups - Tymoshenko\'s and Yanukovych\'s/Akhmetov\'s. Impressed? I am.
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 05:36
Ah, Fred, but wait, there\'s even more! Earlier this year, Western Ukraine endured severe floods. The bridges washed out. Want to know why? Because, as Lutsenko was honest enough to point out, they were of inferior grade and quality - some of the money had been to build bridges had been \"siphoned off.\" Does Canada have a medical care system? You bet it does. So does Ukraine - well, except in Ukraine, if you are in hospital, you have to bring you own bed sheets, your own medicine and needles, and practically everything else. Because the money for medical care has been \"siphoned off.\" Do children in Canadian schools have school supplies? In Ukraine, they don\'t. Not enough paper, or other school supplies. I\'ve sent some to Ukrainian schools, because they don\'t have enough. Impressed? I am. Very much so.
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 06:36
Fred, wait, wait, there\'s more! Do Canadian government officials leave the country for their medical care? Ukrainian officials do. Seems there are no doctors in Canada. So Yanukovych, one-time Prime Minister and member of the Party of Regions and kiss-rear-end-of-Kremlin went to Spain for surgery on his knee. Then to roosha to \"recuperate.\" He\'s the one that got a HUGE MANSION called \"Mezhihirya\" which has its own soccer field and playgrounds, courtesy of some kind of a deal with Yushchenko. Who works on Mezhihirya? Why ITALIAN craftsmen of course. While people are JOBLESS in Ukraine, the leader of the Party of Regions, which stated that it \"had already improved life for Ukrainians TODAY\" in an election campaign, hired Italian craftsmen to work on his mansion. Ain\'t that great?
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 06:42
Fred, wait, there\'s much, much more. Yanukovych had previously been convicted of rape - but the records were \"erased.\" He\'s tied in with Kuchma, whose son-in-law is a Jewish guy named Pinchuk, who brought Steven Speilberg and Klinton (yes, that Klinton) and Paul McCartney to Ukraine. Pinchuk\'s wife just bought a $100 million mansion in London. Impressed? I am. It was all done on stolen government money, stolen \"fair and square.\" In Ukraine, the oligarchs all stole their money \"fair and square.\" And - they have absolute parliamentary immunity. Why? Because the courts are so corrupt, the oligarchs don\'t trust each other or the courts. So they have given themselves ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY. Are you impressed yet, Fred? A cartoon character like you should be impressed. It\'s a great deal - a few oligarchs control Ukraine, either personally or through their shills. And - they have IMMUNITY. Are you impressed, Fred? Because that is the darndest, most impressive thing I have ever seen
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 14:53
Fred, you didn\'t think there\'s more - but there is. Canadian drivers, or at least the ones in Toronto, used to pride themselves on being \"the politest drivers in the world.\" Not in Ukraine - it\'s worse than Mexico. The idea is to go over 100 mph in Porsche\'s and BMWs and other expensive, and if you kill a few pedestrians along the way - you win. They literally cut people in half - and then they run away, or they bribe their way out of it - the judges and/or other people. As far as parliament, you buy your way on to a party list - they have no campaign limits, or reporting requirements. Do they have that in Canada? Everyone has their own set of oligarchs - Tymoshenko, the Party of Regions, etc. The PoR even has a hideous spokeswoman named Hanna Herman who makes snakes look charming. Plus, they\'ve hired Western Public Relations firms to teach them how to lie pleasantly to the people. See, Yanukovych called the people beasts of burden and goats and worse when he ran for prez.
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elmer  (Guest) | 06.12.2008, 14:59
Stick with me, Fred, because there\'s more. Under the party list system, everyone ignores the rules, and they make them up as they go along. It\'s all done in back rooms and other places. As I said, everyone has their own set of oligarchs, who try to knock each other down, while at the same time retaining their place in the \"political elite.\" It\'s like a rugby game - except without rules. They all have their own set of judges, bought and paid for. This year, it got to the point where President Yushcenko simply disbanded a court that gave him a ruling he didn\'t like. Does Canada have any journalists who were beheaded? Ukraine does. 4 years ago, the people froze in December in the streets, and finally they elected Yushchenko during the Orange Revolution to end all that stuff. Yushchenko blew it. Instead, he relies on thugs like Baloha. And the machine politics of Yanukovych and the like is till around. So, yes, I\'m impressed, and I can understand why you are, too.
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Mike2  (Guest) | 07.12.2008, 20:59
Basically, Fred, we are a nation of WHINERS who keep on complaining and are incapable of solving our problems.

We have a huge trading partner on our doorstep but we dont do business with him, you know Fred, he is really really bad. He wants us to pay our gas bills. Can you believe this?
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Guest  (Guest) | 05.12.2008, 19:15
Yushchenko has 3.3% approval rating. The presidential system has failed Ukraine, yes Yushshenko is worst then Kuchma. At least Kuchma realised that Ukraine needs to adopt a European style parliamentary system of democracy. Any colaition withoutr Our Ukraine would be an improvement and should restore political stability. A coalition between BYuT and PoR would allow Ukraine to lay down the foundation stones of a true democracy, removing the authority of the president and strengthening the role of government by the people\'s democratically elected Parliamentary representatives.

Yushchenko\'s rule has been destructive and counter productive. The sooner he is replaced with someone who understands and supports democratic values the better off Ukraine will be. Ukraine must put an end to his mindless divisions.
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elmer  (Guest) | 05.12.2008, 21:04
It\'s not the presidential system that has failed Ukraine. It\'s the PARTY LIST/PARLIAMENTARY IMMUNITY \"political elite\" OLIGARCH system that has failed Ukraine. And now Ukraine is moving to a bogus \"2-party\" system, which will continue to be an OLIGARCH party list system, with OLIGARCHS continuing to abuse the heck out of government for their own personal gain. People in Ukraine can\'t seem to think straight. Everything has to be so crooked, bent, Byzantine and corrupt that Ukrainians can\'t seem to get from A to B. Making simple things overly complicated, with lots of drama queen antics thrown in - that\'s Ukraine.
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Mike2  (Guest) | 07.12.2008, 21:01
And we REALLY REALLY WHINE about this. This is going to help a great deal.Except exterminating half of the population, what do you SUGGEST, UNDERTAKE, INITIATIVES?
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