Is it right to cheat your lover? Readers inject a dose of reality into our sparring partners' love-crazed heads
opic of infidelity. This week, we are running the remainde. This week, for the first time, we allow you to vote for a winner. Just click the button at right. The winner will receive business lunch for two from Evrika.
I’d like to say that Olga’s article “Follow Your Desire, Forget about Morality” is absolutely fantastic! Not only is it tight, super well-written and funny, it is also obviously intelligent and true.
I just want to add that the overly optimistic hopes and silly behavior of people in love is not limited to Sensitive New Age Guys from the West – just look around Kyiv. Even local Bratva give flowers and (much besides) to their “loves.”
The idiocy of men in love is an international phenomenon. There are just too many ex-pats here who are liberal arts or accounting graduates.
Maybe when local mafias establish ties with the Hell’s Angels, other motorcycle “clubs,” prison gangs and the like, the Kyiv scene will be enriched by a different type of “Western” man.
Sam Horelick
John, I am really sorry for what happened to you in my country, and I wouldn’t wish anybody, even my enemies, to go through something like that. No doubt, cheating in any sphere of our life, including love, is wrong and disgraceful. However, I lived in the United States for two years, and I’m pretty sure that the same thing could easily happen to you in New York, Pennsylvania, or any other part of the United States. The “rules of the game,” as you put it, are exactly the same in Ukraine as in the United States, and there are a lot of deceived lovers, as well as dishonest cheaters in your country, too. Or did you forget about your dear president?
Vlas Goncharuk
I really think there still are girls in Ukraine who are not after the money of foreign men. They are looking for nice words, nice treatment and sincere feelings that local men are incapable or unwilling to express! I wonder if John was guided by impulse when he quit his U.S. life and rushed here to live with a woman not having met her parents or friends. I guess they should have dated for a while or found some other means of virtual communication to know each other better.
As to Vie’s behavior, I suppose that first she was astonished and pleased to hear all those sweet things, but she never thought the guy would come here; rather she considered him one more one‑night stand, albeit a prolonged one. All she was thinking about was some fun and nice restaurants, the life of a lady at his expense.
This type of girl is called a dynamo. This phenomenon is becoming more widespread in Ukraine. So they both were left frustrated in love and should have verified their feelings and learned more about each other before making decisions. I hope they still will be happy one day and discover true feelings.
Eugenia Kirilyuk
After spending nine of our 10 married years in the former Soviet Union, I thank God everyday that my husband and I have been able to make it through the land mines that have destroyed others.
Something happens when people leave home and come here: “I promise to be faithful to you when we are at home. When I am in a different country, I can do what I want.” I don’t get it. Affairs are so low. They show such a lack of character and integrity. “I need to feel good.” Boo hoo!
Maybe your spouse wants to feel good too. Maybe her body isn’t as taut as it was before she gave you your lovely children. Maybe she doesn’t sparkle at you like that Sweet Young Thing (SYT) because it has been so long since you gave her flowers on a non‑anniversary day. I have a couple of questions for those guys with the tummy hanging over the belt, receding hairline and a birthday before 1950: Do the SYT’s back home fawn over you like they do here? Do you think that if you had a local passport they would give you a second glance? Here is a question for the SYT who thinks she is doing something wonderful by encouraging someone to be unfaithful to their wife: Do you think that someone who would turn his back on a wife who maybe worked while he finished university, or stood by him as he climbed up the corporate ladder, or took care of the children alone while he traveled on business for weeks at a time, watched his body soften as hers did, is such a great catch?
Do you think that if he is going to do that to someone who went through all that with him, he won’t do the same to you when he figures that there is more to life than a hard body?
A real person, a mature person knows that true love is something that transcends understanding. It is built up over years of shared experiences, good and bad, laughter and tears, times of plenty and lean times.
Anne Howley
It is historically (and anatomically) the right of men to be unfaithful – because nature does it this way! It is programmed by nature that men should relate with different women for generations to survive. Just look at whales – their praised fidelity brought them to a point when they can just perish!
(No name given)
So what is true love, then? I think our society has a pretty warped view of the word “love” if it’s normal for two people “in love” to cheat on each other. Love is more than just the passion you feel for another person deep in your guts, or the fluttery feeling you get when someone you love phones. If two people stay together long enough, anyone will find that feelings fade. Deep below the surface, there is something called commitment. What is love without commitment? Maybe it’s attraction, infatuation, lust, even curiosity … but not love.
What about honor? What about integrity? Have we lost these principles in our lives? Yes, this is the real world, but it is possible to fall in love with someone and commit to him or her. What about respecting someone enough to stay faithful to him/her when momentary attraction to another tempts you to cheat? True love treasures someone’s inner beauty and character, too.
Olga used the examples of characters like Eugene Onegin and Scarlet O’Hara as those who had many lovers. I can think of a better example of a character “in love”: how about the wife in the Italian film “Life is Beautiful?” When her husband and son are put on a train bound for a concentration camp, a guard gives her the chance to not board the train. She is given her freedom. Instead, she chooses to get on the train – surely knowing that she will face death or disease in the camp. This is true love.
Erin Reep
I think love is what we make of it. I like poetry, movies, ballads about love, but I don’t take them seriously. It’s not real life. Sometimes all those words about love, flowers, “lessons about fidelity” are like poison that makes people suffer from a disease they call “love.”
For those who demand that their lovers be faithful, fidelity is their egoism because they are concerned only with their peace of mind.
And for the one who wants to be faithful to the other, it’s a norm of living, culture or upbringing.
So, fidelity has really nothing to do with love…
Anna Golubnycha
I believe it’s all very simple. If you are in love, you don’t think whether or not you should be faithful to the one you love – you just are, because others don’t exist. That is, if we are talking about love here, not passion or lust, or “living with a foreigner” as Ms. Kryzhanovska suggested. I guess some people just can’t tell the difference.
And pleeeeeze John, don’t spread your bitterness over the whole country – you had the misfortune to fall in love with a selfish scheming… (you choose the right word) who just happened to be a Ukrainian. She might as well be Polish, or Japanese, or even American.
Alexander Shabotenko
A friend of mine used to boast about his love adventures. In spite of the fact that he had a wife, he believed that little romances wouldn’t hurt him.
And at the same time he claimed that the relationships between him and his wife were an example of “real love.” So it was a shock for him when he learned that the object of his “real love” herself had got another man.
I believe that what you give is what you get returned. So, if you cheat on your lover or spouse, prepare yourself for being treated the same way.
Adultery ruins families and hurts children. Is it fair that they have to suffer because of somebody’s irresponsibility?
Only passion and instincts can’t rule real love. We are not animals. And if we deny the Christian morality code, we will become animals.
Victor Kushnir
John, sorry to hear your story, but do not get desperate. The rules of morality in Ukraine are the same 10 things as all over the Christian world. Whether to follow them or not follow them comes down to personality rather than national origin.
Volodymyr (No last name given)
Last week’s responses
How sad for Olga! There is no greater treasure than sharing your life (and body!) with one, and only one, companion for life! Only an insecure person shares his or her body with anyone just for the asking; insecure at being able to hold the love of one special lover!
When her face wrinkles up like a prune, and most parts of her body migrate south, where will her lovers be then? Will anyone hold her tenderly in his arms thanking the Almighty for her faithfulness and life-long company?
Kalyna Olexandrivna
Probably, Olga Kryzhanovska is right: Infidelity is a fact of life.
Ihor Mehedynyuk
Fidelity is not a question of naturalness; it is a question of intergrity. Integrity is a habit of living in accordance with the values and standards you set for yourself and others.
Whether infidelity is natural or not is as irrelevant as whether integrity is natural or not. Whatever the case, there are basic human values, honesty being one of them. Living up to the values is good; breaking them is bad. When you lie to someone who loves you and break their trust, you act against basic human values and therefore you act without integrity.
No one would deny that infidelity IS a widespread “fact of life.” That doesn’t make it any more “natural” or “normal” than the corruptness of Ukraine’s government. Both are failures of human beings to live up to the moral standards they erected for themselves.
Mariana Budjeryn
I believe that infidelity is indeed a fact of life. We should not disregard this issue and pretend it does not exist. However, I think infidelity is not a positive phenomenon.
It’s necessary to define “fidelity.” I think one can speak of fidelity or the lack of it ONLY if he/she is bound to the other person by some kind of commitment (marriage, dating, friendship, contract, etc.). Infidelity is a breach of commitment, meaning that if there’s no commitment, there’s no infidelity.
I think that if the relationship satisfies all parties, then fidelity is expected and must be kept. If infidelity takes place, it can only mean the person committing it is searching for a way out, consciously or subconsciously. I do believe there is such a thing as a second chance. If the person truly regrets, confesses his/her mistake and is positively sure that nothing meaningful stands behind the case of infidelity, then this person deserves forgiveness. No third or fourth chances should be granted, though.
In marriage, I think a conscious case of infidelity is a valid reason for a break up. Marriage is a serious and well-thought-of action that takes no back ups and “whoops-a-wrong-one” explanations. Marriage is sacred and must stay this way. Nobody is obligated to marry at all, but if one decides, he/she must realize the seriousness and the responsibility of this step.
Marina Starodubska
John, if you lost your love because of her infidelity, you’ve lost nothing. As a rule, sex is more important for men while we women have our own system of preferences. So, Olga’s article was (for me) one more piece of evidence that women are more realistic, and are able to understand the extra affairs of their male partners and not seek revenge by doing the same. I was born only 20 years ago, but despite this fact I can say that women make love because they want to be loved while men profess love to be allowed to make love.
In addition, John’s citizenship allows me to bring up one more theme: Sometimes the foreigner doesn’t deserve to be treated as the Minister of Foreign Affairs. John, if you want to accuse Ukrainian girls of being unfaithful, you should be abandoned by at least 10 girls, so your experience would be an argument in such a serious, as I think, accusation. But to all Western men searching for their “destiny” in Ukraine, I’d like to say that besides our 18th-century level of life you will not meet the morality of the same century here. So if you expect to find something tender, faithful, innocent, loving, you are going to be the victim of your own illusions. Don’t be confident that your Ukrainian girlfriends consider you the greatest happiness of their lives: You can be easily substituted for … another foreign man.
Vera Rebbitenko
John and Olga, unfortunately both of you missed the mark. John, I’m sorry you were hurt but could you have expected anything different? Long-distant phone calls and agreements to live together are not guarantees of fidelity. Even if she hadn’t kicked you out after two days, I think that sooner or later you would have found yourself in the same boat.
Olga, if fidelity “has nothing to do with real love and real life,” then what is real love? What is fidelity? The two go hand-in-hand. Love is not a “game with no rules;” unbridled passion and self-serving desires are games with no rules. Love is not a game but it does have rules; that’s what makes it the fundamental necessity for human survival. It requires giving, unselfishness, and devotion to another human being. Only in this manner does a person find true happiness and fulfillment. Cleopatra, Catherine II, and Madonna are hardly examples of normal, average women.
“Follow your desires, forget about morality” is indeed a philosophy that many would like us to think is right and mainstream. But just because something makes the most noise or draws the most attention doesn’t always mean it is right and supported by the majority.
I’m only 24. I’m still young and have much to experience. But from what I know so far, some of the hardest times resulted from infidelity; however, the best experiences and what makes life so wonderful for me is the love and devotion I receive and try to reciprocate.
Jill Gammon
Today we are freer to fulfill ourselves sexually than we have been for centuries. We’re surrounded with so much encouragement and goading from the media and general public. All this provokes men and women to believe that their sexual lives must be inadequate, so, as a consequence, adultery happens.
Of course, it is obvious that people and the mass media could hardly be called to be adviser in the maze of personal relations, despite their “high” qualifications in politics, for example. Of course, there is sex in politics, but there is no politics in sex.
So, provoked by our surroundings, we start to consider being faithful as the restriction of our right to “freedom of choice.”I know that “variety is the spice of life,” but I know also that one can’t be satisfied with pepper and cinnamon only.
As usual, infidelity is the matter of each person’s thoughtfulness and weakness, and can be overcome by self-control. I can say that so-called “strong and overwhelming” desires are nothing more than an indication of weakness. So, don’t be proud of your sexual achievements.
Mira Sonchenko
Love is love, not a game. It’s a very special deep feeling which, in my opinion, leaves no space for deliberate betraying. No need to explain why.
Love as a game is something different – its flirtation, passion, infatuation or entertainment. Call it as you want, but I don’t believe that true lovers can easily accept betrayal unless, of course, it’s not a rule in their love game.
Nataliya Rudnichenko
To be faithful to the one you love? Of course, if you love. But now it seems love is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Real love is really rare, and it should be so. As a rule, as time passes infatuation that we call “love” is called by its proper name.
To be faithful to one? But sometimes man doesn’t deserve a faithful woman. And sometimes one woman doesn’t involve us entirely with the all our needs, wants and expectations. You can think I want to read only bad sides of each person’s life, but I am not an optimist nor pessimist and try just to show the realistic side.
Anyway, Olga’s arguments were not convincing while pain (John’s story) is probably the only argument for being faithful.
Vlad Bratik
John, I am sorry your fairytale romance had such a prosaic finale. It is a painful experience that would have been less painful if you were in New York. My guess is that stories like yours happen in the U.S., as well. Maybe you feel it so close to heart because you’ve experienced a sort of culture shock. Take it easier. It will pass in time. As for the rules of the game, they do not differ from country to country. In my belief, people are consistent in everything they do. There are persons who cannot possibly deceive in business, politics, friendship or love. There are others who are natural traitors. But we are less shocked when cheated in the office. Why do we get so upset when love is concerned?
By the way, did you really come to Kyiv exclusively for the sake of your beloved one? No business, no job interest, no other matters involved, huh? If yes, you are the last romantic relic of our time.
Olga, when you cheat on your lover, do you really want him to become a second Shakespeare and push the world’s arts and civilization? When caught in the act, did you ever try to recite the examples of Cleopatra and Madonna to your deceived partner? I would sacrifice the best piece of poetry for just the pleasure to witness the scene.
As for the well-known fact that faithful women are not cheerful, who was the expert? I saw a couple of them looking quite optimistic and I dare not call their husbands gloomy. Actually, things are very simple. When someone wants to dupe the other, he or she should remember a tiny thing: The silliest belief is to consider the partner to be an idiot or blind. Sometimes a cheater risks taking generosity for stupidity. The danger is that even generosity has its limits.
Helen Bondar
