'I don't have a paranoia that I have to be the most important man'
of soft-drinks, Orlan, advises President Leonid Kuchma, heads the National League of Producers of Foodstuffs and co-heads the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine – and that's not all.
He earned his first million in professional sports, namely car races, even before Ukraine became independent. He returned to his native land from the United States in 1991 to invest his money in beer, soft drinks and transportation businesses.
Q: As a presidential adviser, what is the first piece of advice you would give to the newly elected president?
A: I am a pragmatist and a realist, and I hope that I will be able to say what I want and stay wherever I am. I hate the fact that many people have started dividing [government] jobs according to who made a greater contribution to the campaign.
I like it that Kuchma understands what state the country is in, I am sure of quite a few things, and I can relate them as a business pragmatist who doesn't want to be an oligarch, who has not asked for any privileges and who always counted on himself.
Look what is going on: Kuchma inherited the state in bad financial shape. Ukraine is hoping to have some of its debts either restructured or written off. But my trips to the United States, my communication through the Jewish community, my meetings at the U.S. State Department gave me an impression that they are tired of waiting and they will only believe in radical steps. Half-hearted measures, story-telling will not do any good.
Q: Considering what you have said, what does the president have to do right after the election?
A: I advise him to stop believing in tales about personal devotion. I always say that Kuchma is being used, and his kindness is being used for somebody's personal gain.
He will undoubtedly have to conduct administrative reform. An army of bureaucrats is covering itself with Kuchma's name, and at the same time they sit on their chairs and make business plans. But unlike a normal business plan, the success of theirs is contingent upon their positions.
Q: Does your understanding of administrative reform include radical changes in the government?
A: Of course, this kind of thing has to be done, too. Administrative reform is not just cutting down the number of bureaucrats. First of all, if we want to get out of all this and become a normal state, we need to show the West the people whose biographies do not raise any questions.
Q: For example?
A: It's a pity [National Security Council Deputy chief Oleksandr] Razumkov is gone. [Deputy Prime Minister Serhy] Tyhypko, [National Bank chief Viktor] Yuschenko, I can continue.
Also, I think people like [lawmaker Valery] Khoroshkovsky, [Reforms and Order Party leader Viktor] Pynzenyk didn't do all things badly, [Reforms and Order party member Serhy] Teryokhin doesn't say stupid things all the time. I have always been a supporter of a revolution by the young.
Q: What role do you see for yourself in a young government?
A: I stress I am not trying to break through to anywhere. First of all, I would like to be near the president. I treat this man in a sincere way. I came to him when he appointed me as adviser, and said, 'I don't want anything, I don't want cars, or apartments, or dachas.'
I will say this: I will take any position he offers me. I don't necessarily need to be in the most important position, I don't have this paranoia that I have to be the most important man. I'm self-sufficient.
Q: So, does it mean you would agree to be the head of a department in the Economy Ministry?
A: A department head cannot not change a thing. You see a lot of political players who have the same job as I do, but they influence everything. I want this to change a little bit. I want decisions to be taken on the basis of common sense and pragmatism. Naturally, I want to be in a position where I would be able to fight in the same way as I have been fighting until now.
Q: So, name the job that would suit you.
A: You want to put me down under the train, like Anna Karenina. Why? I didn't do you any harm. You understand where we live. Here's what I can say. I could perform two functions: the first one is in the administration to help the president be in charge of reform. But not just sign papers, but the way I'm used to doing it in [Orlan] and get something done at any cost. Otherwise, [to be in charge of] foreign economic policies.
Today, we have two types of people who make decisions and earn money.
The first group, the Old Guard, is where bureaucrats, regardless of rank, are fighting to become closer to the president and to take control of certain industries. These bureaucrats need pocket businessmen to get what they want. These businessmen are worth zero without being close to the power. Their whole business is not built on realistic business plans.
The second group includes self-sufficient politicians and those who came to [politics] already being rich. These people's most valuable asset is their name.
Q: Who are these people?
A: Partly [parliament deputy speaker Viktor] Medvedchuk, partly [lawmaker] Yulia Tymoshenko, partly Khoroshkovsky, certainly Tyhypko.
We shouldn't only look at the names that we keep hearing all the time. I met many entrepreneurs during my campaign trips to the regions, and I saw a very interesting process there. In the regions, there are a lot of healthy forces, and nobody lets them in here. All the regional businessmen are linked to governors, or, in the best cas, they manage to get through to a bureaucrat from the Cabinet.
I think that today the Old Guard, which only aims to get rich off state money and privileges, is doomed. If we try to live in the old way, we should give up hope that somebody is going to give us more loans or investment.
Kuchma is not to blame for this, he's a decent man. And I'm disgusted to see how many people abuse it.
Q: Who is to blame for the existence of this Old Guard and for the absence of administrative reform?
A: Look, I employ several thousand people in my concern, and all the time I see how my vice presidents fight to exert influence on me. Why do they need that? To get a new company car, more financing for his particular project. Just imagine: Kuchma became president after being a plant director, if we skip the prime minister's job. But managing a state is much more scary.
My deep hope and persuasion is that all these years he was learning. And when you learn, you listen to a lot of things. I'm sure that in the last several years he has become a different man.
I cannot say I am fully objective, I have a particular relationship with the president … I have my own sentimental feelings. I respect him regardless of his hardness and the fact that he is a difficult man. But this is probably the man we need now, and we couldn't have had anyone different in the last five years.
Q: Did you help to finance the president's election campaign?
A: I cannot tell you this. I don't think that what I did is financial help to Kuchma. I was in charge of regional business, and at my own cost I traveled all the regions and organized meetings. I organized a congress of young businessmen. But I [did it] at my own cost, not at the cost of the state.
