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Time: Will Ukraine choose a sympathetic Russia over a democratic Europe?

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Oct. 21, 2011, 12:12 p.m. | Ukraine abroad — by James Marson

Russian President Dmitri Medvedev suggested he could offer Ukraine a discount on gas prices and called for Kyiv to turn its back on its long-held desire for European integration.
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After a week of bruising criticism from the West over the jailing of his main political opponent, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych on Tuesday heard the words that put all strongman leaders at ease. "It's Ukraine's internal affair," Russian President Dmitri Medvedev said of the seven-year jail term handed down last week to Ukraine's former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. The Kremlin chief then suggested he could offer Ukraine a discount on gas prices and called for Kiev to turn its back on its long-held desire for European integration by instead joining a Moscow-led trade bloc.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 12:39 p.m.    

Rasputin is like a drug dealer: he is trying to entice the Ukraine with cheap heroin... er... gas. Then, once the Ukraine is well and truly addicted, he threatens to push the price up, unless the Ukraine gives Gazprom total control of the gas distribution system. Next target: the Crimea, final target total control of the country so that it will be like Japan's puppet Manchukuo.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 1:01 p.m.    

You should try using the 'little grey cells'. Russia has just completed the first Ukrainian bypass network to Germany. And the Russian government has made it clear it will build at least two others. The second becomes operative in 2012(next year). So here is the question Deep Thought what are you going to do with the pipeline when the Russian gas goes elsewhere? And before you say so what Ukraine currently earns approx 2.5 billion Euros year in transit fees. Once all the bypass routes are in place the Ukrainian network is worthless. No transit fees,no sale price for the pipeline nothing. Doubtless you would rather be 'poor but honest'. Well that's a catchy slogan use it in the next election campaign.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 1:19 p.m.    

Ansser sell it or demolish it. It certainly will not be worth the cost of mainining it. Ukraine is better off seling the GTS and regualte its sue. It coould be privatsied on a lease arrangement woith raoyalitis and taxes helping fund the national budget. But you are right iof Russia has an alternatove why would it opt to use a middle country to transit its gas?

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 2:43 p.m.    

Nordstream wil only reduce Russia's dependency on the Ukrainian gas network to a certain extent- NOT eliminate it. Nor will the others. Nordsream simply does not have the capacity to supplant the Ukrainian system. Nordstream's purpose is purely political i.e. supply Germany with gas while being able to cut off the rest of Europe- Germany is the only European country Russia is interested in. All other countries don't count, Rasputin doesn't care about them at all.

The point is that Rasputin wants to recreate the USSR with Moscow in total control. And he will do everything to achieve that goal, regardless of cost. Your final statement &quot;Doubtless you'd rather be poor but honest&quot; confirms this. Bow to Moscow- or else.

Examine the construction costs of all those pipelines and look how much Russia might save each year IF it manages to bypass the Ukrainian system completely. The figures simply don't make sense when viewed purely economically.

Eventually the Ukraine will learn how to live without the transit fees- this will be very hard at first, but possible. 2.5 billion euros isn't an insurmountable gap.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 10 p.m.    

The &quot;NORD STREAM&quot; COMPLETELY destroyed the Ukraine capability to blackmail Russia-EU energy trade.

It's geo-political significance is much more important than the 30% of gas volume the dilapidated Ukraine GTS is going to lose to NORD STREAM.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 11:03 p.m.    

If there is any blackmail, it is done by Moscow. Moscow still can't accept that the Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania etc are independent sovereign countries and no longer have to obey Moscow's commands. Moscow doesn't treat its neighbours as equals but as lackeys. And if Moscow is not obeyed, there is intimidation, backmail, sabotage (cyber attacks on the Baltic republics), even invasion and bombing of cities (Georgia 2008).

Moscow wants everything for nothing. Why shouldn't Russia pay the Ukraine a fair price for using the Ukrainian gas distribution system? Why should the Ukraine give Moscow control of that system?

Start showing your neighbours respect, Moscow.

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Anonymous Oct. 22, 2011, 7:10 a.m.    

well because Ukraine is the one that cannot pay. Your American puppet stooge yuskanko could not even pay 1.79 which is second lowest price.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 3:44 p.m.    

Aha, someone has sussed out my cunning plan! You can't stop me now. I am invinsible! Ahahahahahahaaaa!

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Anonymous Oct. 22, 2011, midnight    

are you invincible monsieur putain - I don't think so - although somebody botched your face lift and now you look like a lenin's cadavre in the kremlin mausoleum - minus black nails - you still have a gait that shows you are an invalid. But good luck with your cunning plan - Euroasian Union - my foot! - China, India, Japan, S. Korea, etc are eagerly waiting to adopt cyrylic and russian local dialect, and will take orders from poor bednashka putin. volodia, have another gulp of contaminated russian, samogon, snor some afghan heroin and for a desert have a 'belka i strelka' delicious food - you know the dog food which is a staple diet of the russian army.....

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Anonymous Oct. 22, 2011, 7:08 a.m.    

Is a military alliance to kick NATO dogs ass. China wants it to.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 1:16 p.m.    

Its Europes internal affairs also. If Ukraine wants to be a part of the European Union then it need to recognise that it has responsibilities and standards that are expected of all member states.

If Ukraine can not or is unwilling to demonstrate that it is prepared to meet these standards and obligations then they should not be prepared to become an EU member state.

If they want to pursue a policy of isolation and political persecution of opposition members then the government and Ukraine as a whole will bare the fruits of their policies. As poor a harvest as it may be.

The same policy applies to Georgia whihc is a sovereign state

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 10:11 p.m.    

EU is so broke and powerless, the snotty EU bureaucrats can't deal even with Greece going to the dogs, and Greece is insignificant for the EU economy (2% of it). Now Spain and Italy are following in the Greece steps. What means the EU stinks on ice.

In view of the deep Eurozone crisis, the EU don't want to deal with additional problems coming from impoverished by &quot;democracy&quot; countries like Gruzia and Ukraine - both countries got robbed by the pro-western mafias and have personal income below the World average and below most of Africa countries. LOL :D

The ONLY way for Ukraine to survive is to join the WINNERS - Russia and China are the ONLY World economy superpowers, Russia is the #1 energy and commodities supplier which controls 34% of all known World natural resources, while COMMUNIST China is #1 World producer.

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Anonymous Oct. 21, 2011, 11:24 p.m.    

The Ukraine got robbed by oligarchs who are pro themselves, not necessarily pro western. But the same applies to Russia. All these oligarchs have sooo much confidence in the Ukraine and Russia that they deposit their ill-gotten gains in western banks, not Russian or Ukrainian banks: Cayman Islands, Switzerland etc etc. And the capital flight from Russia, already considerable, is increasing- that shows how much confidence they have in the country.

Russia will eventually implode. Apart from oil and gas, it is not an economic superpower, and new energy sources will take over from oil and gas. And China will take over Siberia in 20 years or so- who's going to stop them? The Russian army? What army?

Twelve more years of Rasputin as president will lead to a stagnation that will make the Brezhnev-Andropov-Chernenko years look like a period of great progress.

The EU has very serious problems, nobody is denying that. But in the long term, the EU will survive. Will Russia? Unlikely- unless the Russians dump Rasputin and his KGB thugs and put Kudrin in the top spot. He is the only one in Moscow with brains, who actually THINKS.

And joining Russia will only make Ukrainians Moscow's slaves again- do you really think that they want that?

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Anonymous Oct. 22, 2011, 7:06 a.m.    

Usa will implode making record debt each year. This year alone 1.5 trillion yes with a T. The Rothschild are robbing the American swine blind. Eu will become black race with Asian eyes not Muslims because Muslims have Moral values while westerns only care about money. USA will end up like Nazi Germany dead and broke.

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Anonymous Oct. 22, 2011, 7:03 a.m.    

I love seeing the west lose. They always support terrorists that turn on them. Iraq kicked the americans dogs out today no bases for blood thirsty American vermin.

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