KyivPost

People of Ukraine: Part 2 – Women

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March 11, 2009, 7:58 p.m. | Op-ed — by Alina Rudya

Alina Rudya

Kyiv Post

Alina Rudya dissects Ukrainian women. Editor’s Note: Alina Rudya wrote about Ukrainian men in the March 5 edition. Now she gives equal time to Ukrainian women.


And so, to continue my story.

I think the majority of Kyiv Post’s readers are foreigners and men. Many of them might say they know everything about Ukrainian women. But I say they are wrong. Truth doesn’t always lie on the surface and I will explain why.

There are lots of foreigners on the streets of Kyiv. And I would bet that half of them, if not more, are here not for business or sightseeing. They are here for women. And that’s where everybody says: “Aha! We knew that already. Ukrainian women are beautiful, easy for sex and they all want to marry a man from abroad.” So are they really? Or do they just look like it?

First of all, I don't want to go deep and talk about how great Ukrainian women are. Responsibility for the whole nation lies on the shoulders of the tender sex..

Ukrainian women are kind and smart. They are great cooks and traditionally they respect family values. This is cultural and I won't tell you anything new if I say that Slavic women are less emancipated and more feminine than Europeans or Americans. And by less emancipated, I don't mean uneducated or illiterate. I just mean they depend on men much more than women in the West. Men take advantage of this dependence as much as they can.

Many might say that most Ukrainian women want to marry rich foreigners and they prefer money to love. I doubt this, especially when it comes to small towns and villages, where women saw foreigners only in soap operas on TV. But if we talk about women who actually want to get married abroad, we should make it clear why this happens.

To be honest, it's in the nature of every woman around the world. It's biology -- women always look for a better male, who can support them and be a good father for their children.

It’s the same in the animal world. The best (read: strongest) always gets the female. Since ancient times, men have fought for women, and only the best ones would get the hand of the princess. It’s Ukrainian women’s misfortune that there are more “best” males out there than in here. Blame the economy, politics, culture, bad genes, “Slavic men syndrome,” – but not Ukrainian women. Many might say that not all Ukrainian women are princesses. And I would answer: Maybe not, but Ukraine has many more than anywhere else, if you judge them in terms of physical appearance.

Look at beautiful women from abroad. So many American, German, French, Italian models and actresses marry rich businessmen. Why? Because they can. Why? Because they are beautiful. And in this world (unfortunately), beauty and youth sells the best.

Many Ukrainian women tend to look for rich husbands. And why? It is well-known that the average Ukrainian woman has the luck of being prettier than the average German, for example. When you look like Ugly Betty, you have fewer options with men in general. (I don’t mean that all German women look ugly, but on the other hand: Why do they have so many male philosophers?)

And rich men, in particular, usually prefer models. Why? Because they don’t have much time for love, since they are busy making money and, secondly, and as I have already mentioned, they can choose. This world is unfair. But why not look for a better option if you’ve got the luck? So what every average woman wants, a Slavic one gets. (And when I say average, I don’t mean Susan Sontag or Mother Theresa). And since there is no middle class in Ukraine and even less upper class, women turn their heads West. Or East – somewhere in the direction of Qatar.

If you get to know the soul of any woman in the world, you will probably see that everybody’s looking for a Prince Charming. And more Prince than Charming when it comes to the financial side. And when a woman says that appearance is not important, I bet that she is not attractive. I mean, please, have you ever seen a good-looking feminist? I haven’t. Oh, actually I did. But he was a man. And gay.

I'm not being superficial, just realistic. People might say whatever they want or whatever they find to be politically correct. But when it comes to real life – well, you probably know why guys dream of Angelina Jolie and not Angela Merkel at night, even though I’m sure that they both are worthy women.

Aside from looking for a wealthy man, Ukrainian women also look for a caring one. As I wrote in the Part 1 article [March 5, Kyiv Post], many men in Ukraine do not have the best attitude towards women. Especially after marriage. “He was so nice and caring when we first met but after we got married everything changed.” How many stories like this have I’ve heard from Ukrainian women already?

Men cheat. They beat their wives (and, as you might know, there is no developed social network for protection against abuse in Ukraine, etc) and they take beauty and kindness for granted. Not all of them of course, but the patriarchic, discriminatory mentality is still there. (“Shut up, woman, your day is the 8th of March.” This joke is not always a joke). So, while many foreigners don’t like their emancipated fellow countrywomen for being not feminine enough, they enjoy the kindness and femininity of Ukrainian women who, in turn, like the unusually caring attitude of European men.

Prostitution is another tricky question. Unfortunately (again), women in Ukraine still have fewer career opportunities than men. (Actually, if you know the state of our economy, you know that men don’t have many opportunities either today). There are many strong and smart women in Ukraine, women with university degrees and many talents. But not everybody meets an opportunity in life. And, of course, not everybody’s smart. So if you track my thought, you’ll understand why so many women have to sell their bodies. If you need to feed your child and nobody needs your brain, no matter how hard you try, but everybody looks at your boobs, you would also consider changing your profession from nuclear physicist to stripper.

We are not talking about “professional” prostitutes, but about girls who are usually considered as “sluts.” (I hope I don’t have any under-age audience). I’ve heard a lot about Ukrainian women being easy about sex with foreigners and I tend to disagree (at some point).

I had an experience with such a stereotype only once in my life, but it was still very unfair and insulting. I was working as a pub-crawl guide in Berlin and my boss, Simone, while introducing me to a crowd of foreign ready-to-get-drunk students said: “This is Alina. She is from Ukraine. And she is NOT a prostitute.” I was shocked. I mean, what an uncommon thing for a Ukrainian girl. I wonder what would happen if I said: “This is Simone. She is German. So it’s weird that she doesn’t have a swastika tattooed on her forehead.” After a while a guy from the United States came up to me and said: “After her words, the only thing I think when I look at you is that I cannot pay you for sex.” My answer: “You cannot get it for free either, darling.” I was really insulted.

When you think “Ukrainian women,” you imagine someone who wears a lot of makeup, high heels in any weather, short skirt and bright colors. Actually, that’s what I imagine as well. I think that Ukrainians are wearing too much evening makeup during daytime. They take less care about their skin (and this is why they turn into a “babushka” at the age of 30, as one of my Italian friends said) than an average European (I noticed that, where a European tries to remove imperfections, a Ukrainian tends to hide the under a thick layer of makeup). Wearing pretentious, bright and kitschy clothes is also something that defines Ukrainians.

I don’t like this Eastern European style myself. But do looks always define actions? Can we actually call a woman a prostitute because she looks like one?

When foreign men come to Ukraine and look at girls, they think they are de facto easy. When I was studying in Budapest, there were few Ph.D. students from Ukraine and Russia who were super smart, super modest and didn’t even have time for men. But still, they wore high heels and short skirts and guys were talking dirty about them because of that, even though they never had a chance with any of these girls. And I’d say that’s cultural not behavioral. I knew many foreign women who were wearing H&M clothes, never had high-heeled shoes in their life and barely knew how to apply mascara. Still they changed sexual partners every week. When the same happens with a Ukrainian it is called “being a whore.”

Why do Ukrainians and Russians have such awful style in clothing and makeup? The Soviet era explains a lot in the difference in mentality. Think Soviet – dull colors, boring designs, uniforms and no good makeup. Since the collapse of Soviet era, women who suddenly got exposed to all the miracles of capitalism wanted it all.

Moreover, Ukrainian people are still more traditional than Europeans. So girls still think that after sex comes the marriage. So this why some girls have sex with foreigners who come to our motherland to have fun. They just hope that the men will get serious. And some actually do.

I tried to justify Ukrainian women as much as I could. I’m one of those, even though I don’t wear high heels and heavy makeup and I don’t look for a rich husband. I just think one of the main reasons Ukrainian women are called prostitutes and are denied visas when they want to go abroad is simple jealousy. Women are jealous because they are afraid that Slavic smart beauties will steal their best men. And some men are jealous because they try to get such a smart and beautiful girl but get rejected. Other men (who get lucky) don’t complain. And other women (who are not that attractive) go into politics and business or become feminists.

Alina Rudya is a Kyiv Post columnist and can be reached at rudya@kpmedia.ua
The Kyiv Post is hosting comments to foster lively debate. Criticism is fine, but stick to the issues. Comments that include profanity or personal attacks will be removed from the site. If you think that a posted comment violates these standards, please flag it and alert us. We will take steps to block violators.
Anonymous March 11, 2009, 9:08 p.m.    

@ Alina Rudya -- "... have you ever seen a good-looking feminist? I haven't. ... ... I'm not being superficial, just realistic."

Are those comments, taken together, meant as a signal that this entire op-ed should be read as a parody?

You can't be serious about anything you've written in this column. This has got to be a parody of Western stereotypes about young Ukrainian women.

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Anonymous March 11, 2009, 10:46 p.m.    

it's nice that some people still have sense of humor=)

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Anonymous March 11, 2009, 9:15 p.m.    

As a foreign male who came to Ukraine to study in a university, I might note that I did not come across any "easy" young women. Many were bright and friendly, though. The worst attribute I can think of now is a slight aloofness that comes from being very attractive and knowing it.

The young women I had the fortune of interacting with never seemed to have trouble getting visas to Europe or the States.

Slavic culture always struck me more as matriarchal, though. The women just let the men think they run the family, but continually exercise silent veto powers. Abusive partners are a thing aside, though, male or female.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 1:49 a.m.    

Girls from West are fat and not so elegant like girls from Ukraine or Russia!

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 3:18 a.m.    

Not all girls from west. But yes they do have FOOD to eat and drive THEIR CARS, as opposed to having to walk and take a bus. Those poor broke Eastern girls living in poverty. Dreaming of a better life!

Warning: If you visit Ukraine, don't drink the water !

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 3:33 a.m.    

Nonsense.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 7:09 a.m.    

Brilliant! Clever satire ... witty, insightful, and light-hearted yet biting at times. Beautifully written and wonderfully entertaining!

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 7:26 a.m.    

...which describes better your review -- than the article you are reviewing.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 7:44 a.m.    

...which describes better your review -- than the comment you are reviewing.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 1:17 p.m.    

If you hate my articles so much - just stop reading and commenting. It looks like you have nothing else to do. Get a life!

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 7:42 a.m.    

Thanks for the article! I'm glad someone clarified about how the 'prostitution' style of clothing came about ("Since the collapse of Soviet era, women who suddenly got exposed to all the miracles of capitalism wanted it all"). All these years since visiting Ukraine I couldn't quite figure out why I see the culture of women (men too) all dressed-up even to even pick-up a loaf of bread! I certainly do feel like a bumb on those occasions where I'm the only guy wearing jeans with an untucked shirt to the market while all everyone else appears to be shopping in evening wear.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 12:35 p.m.    

Hey, American Guest, I answered you under your question to me (did not type my name). Look another article in Opinion section of KP Banana Republic and read comments. A guy answers - ''..yeah Ukraine becomes a banana republic...'

This is obvious result aimed by KP (same as Yuschenko administration aimed to spark hatred of Ukrainians to Russians - read any Russian speaking forums on politics - Korrespondent.net for instance - or ask your Russian speaking friends to do it - you will see affronts to each other although we did not have it before). KP wants the same result + clicks on their site from outraged readers (as you wrote).

P.S. Sometime ago I remember an article in KP how good Ukrainian women are - high heels in any weather, always stylish, friendly, really womenlike, and bulshit like this. No critisism. Now it is vice versa. Just bulshit for biomass :-(

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 3:06 p.m.    

A very good description of 'Ukrainian Women' starts before the article: the photo of Alina, which has many elements in common to most Ukrainian women of her generation. She displays a confident, defiant, intense and intelligent look in her eyes. She insinuates a smile (omnipresent in European women and omniabsent in American people of the female persuasion), and all presented in perfect (made to show 'casual') color job. There are a lot of messages to that expression, before the article actually starts. To know about UA women, just take a look at that portrait for a few seconds. I think Alina makes an excellent presentation before typing the first word.

If I were to read her poise and expression (as I do), I would say she is saying: "Don't you (dare to) underestimate me" "Yes, I CAN look good AND be smart" "I know things are not great now, but just wait and see" "You don't know what I am smiling about, but you notice my smile... so watch out" BTW, very nice intriguing smile.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 3:16 p.m.    

Reading your description I recall Mona Liza immediately :-) Are you her friend or something?

I would dare to suppose that you are quite young (mature of course) if you idealize people and women in particular. I see a lot of other things in this face - I would not want this woman to be my manager or something to say the least.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 3:29 p.m.    

Alina and readers, what Ukrainians (and not just women) have in common is the preconceived notion/fear/absolute conviction that the World looks down at you. Ukrainians think that nobody likes them (including other Ukrainians). You guys have a permanent 'no' attitude regarding others. We know about self-fullfilling prophcies, so this is not good... Most importantly, it is completely unwarranted. The first time I heard that 'the rest of the world presumed Ukrainian women to be prostitutes, was from... Ukrainian women, with a 'fait acomplie' expression, as in 'matter of fact'. Funny, because I never heard that before. Surprisingly, I never hear of that 'reputation' elsewhere. We know of your people as artists, ballet dancers, tennis players, scientists... everywhere but in Ukraine and from your own words. I think that PARANOID describes the present state of the Ukrainian people better than any other. Would you please relax...

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 5:39 p.m.    

Muchas gracias Pablo! I hope more exposure to the world and international travel will cure this inferiority complex finally. I am a ukrainian woman living abroad for 10 years. I consider myself smart, free and have build a decent international career (no stripping:), although never 2 busy to enjoy the company of men. I wear high heels and makeup, it's very much in place in New York City, where I currently live. Beauty is good if you are lucky, brains are great, it's a false dichotomy and nothing to apologize for if you have both. Nothing wrong with being unique bc of your background. I traveled to many countries around the world and have many international friends. I know that all cultures have their stereotypes regarding sexual relationships. Everyone has their own problems and good things. Brazilian women are 100 times more obsessed with looks than Ukrainians. Italians are different from Germans. If you're confident and in peace with who you are nobody would be able to insult you.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 7:31 p.m.    

Not everyone has beauty, not everyone has brains -- but better than both is discipline -- by which the ugly and unimaginative get further ahead in life than their witty, good-looking cousins. We have too many Michelangelos too lazy to pick up a chisel.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 3:48 p.m.    

I am a foreign male that reads Kyiv Post and is married to a Ukrainian woman. Did I make a mistake or am I lucky??

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 10:47 p.m.    

neither

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 10:53 p.m.    

You are lucky. definitely. count your blessings and eat your pierogy in peace.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 4:54 p.m.    

What childish drivel spewed out by an inexperienced writer whose prose is peppered with embryonically intellectual and obtuse thoughts. I would suggest to Ms Rudya that she organize her thoughts (hence formulate an outline at least) before embarking on any future attempt at serious writing as the paper on which her ink is printed isn't worth the hryvnia. Rubbish sentence structure; uninspiring word choices; very impoverished argumentation.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:43 a.m.    

every word is a lie?

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 6:28 p.m.    

Alina's article is the perfect example of why this Kyiv born male chose a Western wife. I thank God my children are not growing up subjected to the perverse manipulations and soulless drivelings of such women, and Ukrainian society in general. To Western men - you can have these women, and good luck to you, because you will need it! Normal girls from Ukraine are in the minority, and they usually marry early.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 6:59 p.m.    

To men sharing opinions about ukr women: Looking for beautiful intelligent and sporty women?? Go to San Francisco! But they don't tolerate losers there so you better be successful! Looking for beautiful intelligent and sporty women in Ukraine? Oh yes, you will find plenty and you don't even need to be a perfect man! But if you do go to Ukraine looking for a woman, you are in no position to judge, so enjoy, find your happiness and keep your mouth shut!

I hope women here will realize with time that looks are nothing and they should stop being lazy! Women all over the world faced similar problems, they struggled through them and that's what ukr women need to do!

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 9:29 p.m.    

implification and primitive understanding of the problem.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 11:19 p.m.    

check out words "parody" and "irony" in wikipedia.

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Anonymous March 22, 2009, 8:14 a.m.    

well, then that's a cripple of a parody

humour is a tricky thing to do in foreign language

try reading some funny columnist in English, Alina

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 10:27 p.m.    

Wow, how you can define a whole world in two articles.

Why Ukrainian women and men are not allowed into many countries, because so many are willing to work illegally and stay, not because of prostitution.

Why western look for women in Ukraine, because as the article stated that most normal people marry at a younger age, thus western men look for a lady that is younger so they can have a "normal" relationship. Most of the Russian/Ukrainian women who marry to come to the west are seeking a better life financially. It is true that they do not have the opportunities as in Ukraine, but also true they are looking for the life, not the person.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 10:52 p.m.    

Ukrainian Women are ConMen, looking for what they can get, if you don't have the Dollars, they don't have the time. Best look elsewhere.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:40 p.m.    

And that makes them different?

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 10:52 p.m.    

The reason why Ukrainian women are pretty is because they are poor and have nothing to eat, therefore they are skinny. Wait a few years until the economy recovers and Ukraine becomes richer a builds more fast food places, and you will see that they are no different from any other women.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 11:05 p.m.    

No, Ukrainian women will always be beautiful. It is not skinness that makes them physically beautiful, but God given good genes and slavic facial features, topped with intelligence and good naturedness. Poems, songs, books are wittten about Ukrainian women, and nothing, nothing witll take this away. Most are thin - and this helps:)

I hope that Ukrainian economy recovers, as well as other economies, but please do not get too cynical about fast food joints and Ukrainian women getting fat- there is no linear correlation there. I wish all Ukrainian women luck, health, and hope that they will have more children so the beautiful nation will grow and thrive.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 10:54 p.m.    

Wait a second!

I take issue with her contention that foreign "rich men" are just looking for beauty. That is a total misconception. Rich men here in the US are involved in many social events and gatherings, where a "dumb" 19 year old Ukrainian woman would be extremely uncomfortable and be socially shunned. They also have family members and friends, who would laugh at them if they chose some dumb beauty queen to be their eternal soulmate. No rich guy would ever subject himself to such potential ridicule, despite the availability of easy sex with a gorgeous young model. He can get all the sex he wants with numerous gorgeous prostitutes here in the US. Why would he need to go to Ukraine?

These men want beauty of course, but any rich guy can go to Ukraine and find beauty all over the place, willing to meet him or even marry him. I think the rich guys she refers to are much more selective than she gives them credit for. They want beauty and brains and passion--something rare in USA

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:27 a.m.    

"Why would he need to go to Ukraine?" ah.. for the same reason you invest (hoping that Madoffs will rob others, not you, on your behalf), and for basically being greedy and delusional about your self-importance.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 3:17 a.m.    

So I guess you have a pretty low image of Ukrainian women, right? I guess you didn't have much luck with them, and are bitter about the fact that foreign men are taking them away from you loser Ukrainians.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 2:19 a.m.    

Well, not sure what your interpretation of the "looser" is, but a person who goes buying the impoverished women in foreign lands is usually not exactly a "winner" in his own country. I dated Ukrainian, Russian, American women and came to a conclusion that there is nothing wrong with any of them. With my eyes closed I wouldn't be able to tell them apart. It is all in one's head. My reality is the manifestation of my ignorance.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 5:37 a.m.    

Sorry, but you're totally wrong. If you think an American can just fly to Ukraine and select the most beautiful girl he can find, and put them on the next plane to USA, you are sadly mistaken. These girls are not just sitting there just waiting for anybody to "select" them. They are the ones "selecting" the men, not the other way around.

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 11:17 p.m.    

well, Alina, so far it's your worse article - and it's so funny to read them every time (especially being a woman myself..)! i mean, really - you should be a national hero by now. i mean, i even would buy Kyivpost every time just to have a good laugh - so well done, editors!

but other than the bullshit in general described above, can anybody (I doubt that the author knew at all what she meant) tell me what does Susan Sontag have to do with an average German or Ukrainian woman? anyone?

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:51 a.m.    

the same as mother Theresa - nothing. I'm happy that you're having a good laugh when you're reading my articles. It proves one point -you dont have to understand Alice in Wonderland to enjoy it.

regards,

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Anonymous March 12, 2009, 11:39 p.m.    

This article is totally wrong about one thing. Rich men do not work all the time. They have much more leisure time than the average American, and travel all over the world any time they want. Why would these "rich guys" want to drag along some young Ukrainian girl whom they "don't have time to love" just so they can engage in loveless sex with them? Maybe the writer is thinking of the Sheiks of Dubai, who this probably applies to when describing their harem. But no rich guy I've ever met is lacking in time for "love". Quite the contrary. And being rich gives you the option to find someone you truly love, wherever they may be. Why would being "rich" mean you don't want to find true love?

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:55 a.m.    

well of course you do want to find true love. but in most cases being rich gives you an option to experience how people love your money.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 1:40 a.m.    

Sorry, but this makes no sense. Being rich has nothing to do with the ability to experience love. I would argue the exact opposite--rich people have much stronger love bonds between them and their spouses than the average couple because the primary source of friction--money--is not a an issue. Didn't you ever watch Gillian's Island? Mr. Howell always called his wife "lovey". Don't see that too often!

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:22 a.m.    

Also, once you marry somebody, it's no longer the case that someone loves "your" money. It's their money too! And rich people are well aware of the fact that some women only want to marry them for their money. Maybe some rich people go for that, but the vast majority are looking for quality women--women with brains, education, intelligence, knowledge and experience. If you can throw in the fact that they are incredibly beautiful, that's always a plus. But no rich guy I've ever met will risk having a golddigger wife, because these women are likely to divorce you, and take as much of your fortune as they can get. Also, if the rich guy wants a family, I don't think they are interested in having a dumb beauty queen as the mother of of their children.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:06 a.m.    

Alina, have you even talked with some of these young Ukrainian women seeking husbands abroad? What makes you think they are ready to jump on the first guy with money? You have totally underestimated the depth of the Ukrainian woman's souls. These women have thousands of rich men looking to meet them from around the world. You have completely missed the fact that these women are much more concerned with their future partner's intellect and character traits than their money. I have talked to them, and they are very selective, and money is not even a matter of discussion until they are satisfied you are a good and decent person. Please don't sell these Ukrainian women short--they are truly passionate, intelligent, and complex women.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:39 a.m.    

I am a middled age Slavic man who has had the good fortune to travel the world and meet beautiful ,nice and good hearted people in every corner of this world ,and every religion.

When I was younger I also thought that I knew everything like Alina.

There are attractive people all around the world,which includes millions of Slavic people .

Being a Slavic person is some thing to be proud of because our people and united Slavic culture contributed many positive developments through out the history of civilization .

Our people our hard working ,educated ,creative ,and prosperus to name a few attributes ,(when provided the opportunity ,just look around the globe,e.g. in the US ,Canada ,Western Europe ,Australia ,etc.).

We are also a devout family culture ,and our families are made up of beautiful woman ,handsome man ,and gourgeous children, both physically as well as cultural.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:56 a.m.    

"....when provided the opportunity..." This says everything. So this means Slavic people can't "create an opportunity", like British, German, Dutch, etc can and have done through history. This is exactly the case. Ukrainians are no different to African Americans who do well in the USA, but their own countries still remain corrupt poverty ridden slums! They simply live off the good honorable work of others.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:30 a.m.    

Exactly. When one thinks of Slavic women - the first thing that comes to mind is 'opportunistic'.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 1:03 a.m.    

Read my previous article. I wrote that our best males (as well as many females) were moving out of the country for centuries - to US, Canada, Western Europe, etc

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:50 a.m.    

The writer and the readers are missing one important point here..Is it not the Ukrainian women who give birth and raise the generally useless lazy Ukrainian man??!!

I have been fortunate (or unfortunate, as the case may be), to live and work in reasonably serious business in Ukraine. As well as be married to a Ukrainian woman, and raise a child here, and in turn send that child to a Ukrainian school. So I see Ukrainian mothers and children all the time, as well as mix with Ukrainian businessmen all the time. Re the children...generally incredibly spoilt, out of control, over emotional, and without discipline...almost all that I have seen would be diagnosed with ADD in the West. Re the businessmen..the same. Do you get the correlation?? I have taken my family back to the West, my wife being one of a minority of sane Ukrainian women.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:01 a.m.    

Which came first, the lazy, drunk, abusive Ukrainian father, or the out of control son? I wouldn't put the blame on the women--the father is the role model for the son, not the mother.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 5:20 p.m.    

What came first??...A lesson in birds and bees for Guest that missed that class. Why of course it was, as usual, the woman CHOOSING the lazy drunk Ukrainian man!! Usually at that stage when the choice is made he of course is the "attractive" loud, heaps of mates, drinking, show off, hopefully not in the future abusive, punk (such is woman's weaknesses for this type of man). Then came the sex, then came the child, then WENT the punk. Then of course it all repeats itself in the next generation.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, noon    

must be english.....joe

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:14 a.m.    

I assume many posters on here are foreign men married / attached to Ukrainian women. Some are still scratching their heads wondering how much of an attraction their money (or a chance to get out of UA) really was. Obviously, this article does not alleviate their worries, hence angry replies.

Alina - have compassion to those whom your article got unsettled.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:30 a.m.    

Every woman in the world wants a good provider. What's your point?

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:46 a.m.    

And so is every men. Is there a third party available to provide them both?

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:55 a.m.    

I don't care if the women just want to get out of that hellhole which is Ukraine. Can you blame them? Once they're out of the country, they are grateful of course, but I don't see them as much different than any other woman who always wants their husband to make more money. Have you ever dated an American woman? Hell hath no greater fury than an American woman whose husband doesn't give them everything they want!.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 3:39 a.m.    

I for one would love to see the transfomation from gorgeous, thin supermodel to "Babushka". Whoever said this is nuts!

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 4:31 a.m.    

nowadays everyone is a prostitute or pimping something no matter what nationality they came from. there is always criticism wherever we go point is, poor or fat we should be happy cause we are alive.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 4:39 a.m.    

Take it from an older guy, women are women no matter what country they come from, they are all just a pain in the ass.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:33 a.m.    

"It’s Ukrainian women’s misfortune that there are more “best” males out there than in here. Blame the economy, politics, culture, bad genes, “Slavic men syndrome,” – but not Ukrainian women. "

NO blame for Ukrainian women, that Ukrainian men are the way the are, even if you count bad genes? Ummm, aren't half of those genes from Ukrainian women? Although the economy and politics may be male dominated, a significant portion of the culture could be attributed to women, no?

I made the point on the first article - but will make it again. The poor state of the average Ukrainian mans mentality and personality is a reflection of the poor state of the average Ukrainian woman's mentality and personality.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:39 a.m.    

Beyond that - in my experience - she is right, Ukrainian women are not the easy sluts that us Westerners percieve them to be. On average, I'd say Ukrainain women have fewer sexual partners than their American and European equivalents. And they definitely have fewer one-night stands, which are not nearly as culturally acceptable in the East as in the West.

But this very fact is what brings about the view of Ukrainian women as easy. It isn't that they are easy, it is that they are opportunistic. While a Western woman may sleep around, for the mere fun of sleeping around, at her whim and with men of her chosing, a Ukrainian woman would rarely do this. However - presented with a wealthy man, who she thinks she may have a chance of snatching, and she is quick to perform.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:43 a.m.    

No one can fault Ukrainian women for seeking to better their lives, especially in the light of seeking to better the lives of their current or future children.

But there is a subtle difference between seeking a better partner for your future family, and blatant opportunistic behavior. Given the crudeness of the above article, one can see that Ukrainians aren't exactly masters of subtlety.

Yes, there are many Western men in Ukraine in search of beautiful women. More than one has been shocked by how nice a girl can act towards him, just to see her snap like a total beeatch at the wait staff.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:38 a.m.    

Honestly, I very much enjoyed your article and I think it was fair and just based on your experience and understanding as a Ukrainian woman.

Not sure what all the fuss ia about and the bashing of you!

I am a American and refuse to date American girls!

Its nice to see a woman dress as a woman and take time to look nice for her man - I respect that!

This is why I come to Ukraine to find a woman,wife and mother for our future children. Yes, I prefer the younger woman - 30 something as I am 43. But, I take care of myself and look and feel great!

Ukrainian woman are simply the best I think as I have dated many - and not for sex!!! I want a wife, which in America means - no sex! Smile! Something tells me the Ukrainian woman wants relations even after the marriage and this appeals to me!

So, stop bashing this writer as in my modest opinion she speaks the truth and sometimes it hurts I guess from all the bad comments I have been reading!!!

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 6:07 a.m.    

Look, I'm an American guy, and have dated Ukrainian girls. I too had your same thinking in the early stages (I've spent a lot of time overseas). But we need to be honest with ourselves.

Is it that you refuse to date American women, and Ukrainian women are so great - or is it that you are able to succeed with more attractive women in Ukraine than in the US, due to the relative difficulty of American women?

Western women are more chosey about their partners simply because they can be - for every young, cute, nice Western girl there's a dozen educated, succesful, kind, men chasing them....while, in Ukraine, for every young, cute, nice girl there's a dozen drunken, rude sloths ready to beat them.

In my experience - to the extent that a Ukrainain girl can land a decent Ukrainian guy (some of them do exist) they will generally chose him over a Western equivalent.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 6:15 a.m.    

The problem with Western men bashing Western women, and praising Ukrainian women, is the negative, unintended consequence of bloating the Ukrainian womens' egos.

Excessive, unfounded pride being a hallmark of Ukrainians (there are actually many Ukrainians who believe the US economy is worse off than the Ukrainian economy, to give you a simple example), Ukrainian women are very prone to bloated egos.

The article above is a clear example - the writer is quite arrogant about the 'fact' that Ukrainian women are more beautiful, on average, than Western women.

That 'fact' isn't true, but it is created and reinforced by Western men that give them excessive praise.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 12:26 p.m.    

Sorry, it is a fact. Anyone whio denies it are only fooling themselves (or lying). Per capita there are more beautiful in Ukraine than can be found in the US or W. Europe; besides this, they tend to pay more attention to their appearance. You would rarely find a Ukrainian woman walking around in public in sweatpants and t-shirt, even if is just a run to the market, unlike the US where many walk around like slobs without a second thought. I'll grant the point that currently in the West you are more likely to find a higher per capita number of over 40 beauties, but this may be just a question of demographics and the stresses of life for the generation that is currently over 40. Wait a few years and you may see the current generation age into MILFdom much more gracefully.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 4:39 p.m.    

Would love for your prediction to come true (Slavic MILFdom) :)

I still disagree that the highest proportion of beautiful women can be found in Ukraine (or other Slavic countries). I would say Scandinavian countries actually top the list.

An added twist: If you want to find the most beautiful Slavic women, where do you go? Kyiv, Moscow? Saint Petersburg?

No, no, and no. You go to New York, London, and Paris.....

Now, if you were a Western Joe and wanted to hook up with a Slavic beauty, it would thus make sense to go to New York, London, and/or Paris to meet them, right?

Wrong again. Slavic women, whence they make it to the West, become no easier to catch than their Western counterparts. Again - the attraction to the Slavic world isn't that the women are better looking there (though I will grant they do generally make more of an effort in terms of dress and general appearance, I'm talking basic underlying physical beauty) - the attraction is the availabitlity...

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:53 a.m.    

Some of the negative stereotypes of Slavic women are that they are cold, selfish, superficial, and opportunistic.

While the article is very true in many respects, it also goes a long way to displaying that those negative stereotypes are justfiied.

On another note - I am an American man, and have travelled much. My take: There are just as many beautiful women in the US, France, Germany, Italy etc as in Ukraine - the reason Western men go to Ukraine isn't because they can't find beautiful women in their own countries, its because they are rejected by them (generally due to much greater level of competition).

The overall attraction to Ukraine, then, is not that the women are so great (no better looking, on average, than Western women, and inferior in overall personality) but that Ukrainian men are so piss-poor (as explained so well by this very author). The lack of competition means a very average Western man can win the hand of a fairly attractive, young Ukrainian girl.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:58 a.m.    

Additionally, although the stereotype is that American women are 'fat', and certainly many are, the reality is health consciousness has become much greater in the US than in Eastern Europe - such that many women make a concerted effort to diet and exercise, maintaining a good figure well into their 30's, and even in cases into their 40's.

While one finds many cute Ukrainian 20 year olds, how many hot Ukrainian 40 year olds do you find? You can actually find many more attractive 40 year old American women than Ukrainian women. While McDonalds is losing popularity in the US, it is gaining in Ukraine.

Again - the attraction to Ukraine isn't the superior women, its the lower competition from Ukrainian men - with the result being that a guy who can't get a decent girl in France, the UK, or the US can get a decent young girl in Ukraine. Just be forewarned - that cute 22 year old will turn plump starting at about age 28.

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Anonymous June 17, 2010, 5:55 p.m.    

Yes, you are so correct. American women are health conscious. That is why the usa has the highest rates of cancer, diabetes, obesity and depression. Because its such a happy place where men have it so easy. Just think, in some universities, the female enrollment rate is over 80%. That's equality right? Hmmm, so many men live under the poverty level yet, they have access to so much it seems. They are so privileged. I think America's crime rate may be high too? I'm not sure. It might just be. I wonder why so many men would commit crimes? Obviously if they are so well off and have access to all of these 'thin' american women. Crime would be the last thing on their minds.

... Much like old Soviet propaganda, capitalist scum have theirs as well. Feminism, capitalism and American culture and its women are like a disease on the world. God forbid if the world became all america. But it seems to be becoming a reality. Always remember. The loneliness and hurt of men results in war.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 5:55 a.m.    

I hate vapid generalizations - so here goes.

Quite a few years ago, there was a humor/satire magazine, the "National Lampoon." In one issue, they took it upon themselves to lambaste Bulgarian women - overweight, hairy, not good looking at all.

They got a very irate call from the Bulgarian ambassador, who demanded an apology and a retraction:

"My wife is Bulgarian, and she is very good looking."

The National Lampoon guy asked:

"How old is your wife"?

"24," came the reply.

"Wait a few years," came the reply from the National Lampoon.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 6:02 a.m.    

Nothing to see here, move on, nothing to see.

I hate vapid generalizations.

If you want to know a little bit about Ukrainian women, read "A History of Tractors in Ukrainian."

In it, a woman with a "big chest" from Ukraine goes to England in order to trap an old Ukrainian WWII emigre in England into marriage - and something other than what she refers to as a "crap car." Like a Rolls Royce, or better.

The old man's daughters, who are obviously of Ukrainian descent but grew up in England, refer to the woman with the "big chest" from Ukraine as the "pink grenade."

Part of the daughters' concern is that the "pink grenade" is out to steal their inheritance.

Turns out, the old man paid for the surgery so that the "pink grenade" could have a "big chest."

More than that I won't give away.

It's a very good and funny book, winner of a few book awards.

Other than that - I hate vapid generalizations.

And I don't understand why Ukrainian women have to be "justified."

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 10:32 a.m.    

Women Feminists are not attractive? lol, maybe you just don't know what a feminist is or, you have never seen Latin American feminists. In either caser I have to ask, why aren't you a feminist? From your description of feminists I would think you qualify. I love all feminists, socialist ones, not capitalist greedy ones. Why do you bash feminists so much? Were you raised to think feminism is a bad thing? Maybe it's all the screwed up capitalist feminists that are all over the media or, maybe it's the gay feminists that you don't like, I don't know but, your annimosity towards feminists is obvious in this artical. I am a feminist and a male, I work in the construction industry and I do not consider myself ugly or good looking. The Ukraine has a rich history of strong (and good looking) feminists so it does surprise me that you have such a bad taste for feminists. I was just teasing you before, you are very pretty but don't let that fact go to your head. Red Love, Charles

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 2:32 p.m.    

Dear Alina,

Your article covers mostly my experience/impression about ukrainian women. tI covers as well what I hear from ukrainian women too (I mainly lean back silently and listen during the long-summer-night conversations between my wife and her female friends. You know wine, salads, shashlyki and hours of talking).

Anyway, I'd like to add two comments to your observations

- A big strength of ukrainian women is their loyality to family/husband. At the same time this is their weakest point because husband (and often her/his mother as well) use this to keep young married women in accordance with thier views. After some years it's hard then to free yourself.

- The prejudice of many ukrainian/russian women to be half-prostitutes is changing for the better. There are so many ukrainian/russian expats here that lead a normal life ... people started to look beyond their false ideas.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 3:39 p.m.    

If this article is about Ukrainian women, there is no need to write "Ukrainian/Russian" or "Slavic" -- too general, and there is a very big difference between Ukrainians and Russians, both men and women.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 4:15 p.m.    

Hi Guest,

I wrote ukrainian/russian because my experience is based on my wifes friends that grew up, studied and live in Crimea. They all consider themselves as a mix between ukrainians and russians.

I apologize for not being clear.

Cheers

Martin

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 4:55 p.m.    

If we're going to go down that road, then we need to start distinguishing 'Ukrainians' from 'Gagauzians', 'Russians' from 'Byriats', etc.

Ukraine and Russia are home to dozens of different ethnicities.

However, when one discusses 'Ukrainians' and/or 'Russians', it is generally understood they are referring to the Slavic majorities (of both Ukraine and Russia).

I do understand, and respect, the Ukrainian identity, its separate history, culture, and language from that of Russia - but, in the end, even the majority of Western Ukrainians are Slavs.

I know it is offensive to Ukrainians (and sometimes to Russians) that Ukrainians and Russians are lumped together, and I know Ukrainians are adament about maintaining their separate identity, but one has to accept the reality that, to the outside world, there is little difference between a Slavic Ukrainian and a Slavic Russian.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 11:53 p.m.    

absolutely right

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 8:07 p.m.    

Alina, Thank You for your articles. I have enjoyed both articles about men and women and have found many truths in them. It is very interesting how many comment on these two articles. I wished they cared as much about the news.

Regarding this article, I do believe Ukraine has the most beautiful ladies.

But, Ukraine is much more than this.

Now....if only Ukraine could find a stable and honest govt.

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Anonymous March 13, 2009, 9:50 p.m.    

Alina, I perfectly agree with you! I am man living in a big city in western europe. I got the chance to be married to a slavic beauty for several years. Is hard to explain how amazing, sweet and caring a russian or ukranian woman can be (of course that should not be a stereotype). And is true that for a man walking in downtown Kyiv is a bit like a walk in paradise.

Ukranian women are beautiful, but they are also clever and ironic and well educated like women in Eu or USA (please don't forget that Ukraine is Europe!!). Ukranian women behave exactly in the same way a woman elsewhere would behave but they look better. I am not an idealist but I think is a pity that men think that way. And that Eu governements deny Visa to ukranian women on this basis is a shame.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 4:17 a.m.    

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, which is one reason I find all of this so fascinating. However, the whole thrust of the article is fatally wounded by the only advertising on the page for - ta da, sound of drum roll - UkraineDate.com. Satire? Irony?

Alina, the whole point of your opinion piece is undermined by the only ad in sight. It's hard to take you seriously (if that really was your intent) while the newspaper is pimping.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 7:11 a.m.    

Of course most western men who are serious about finding a kind, caring, intelligent and attractive wife would look to Ukraine -- most are afraid to invest the resources (time & money) and settle for the "home crop". If western women are not so different from Slavic women, why then are there so many agencies that introduce western men to Slavic women? I have yet to see any agency that introduces western women to Slavic men. I wonder why that is? You know the answer, and that explains the growing numbers of western men looking to the east. The numbers of feminine men and masculine women in western culture are growing annually -- personally I preferred the days when "men were men and women were women". The FSU culture continues to embrace that tradition, which I and most western men are more comfortable with.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 11:14 a.m.    

So true so true, I never regretted that I married an Ukrainian angel, and never think about how life would be if I married someone from my motherland. 3 years of marriage, and I am proud about that back in my country men look at my wife, to admire her beauty when we walk together, especially when they look at me with jealousy. And she is so clever, she proved this fact over and over, last by being promoted to a manager by her American boss (in a time of crisis, that's hard to achieve.).

What I disagree is that: 'They are great cooks and traditionally they respect family values.'. Nah, most Ukrainian women I've met are bad cooks, they don't even know what's a hamburger. It took my wife 2 years to learn western dishes, now she is the best cook in our village. But most girls around here don't eat much in order to stay thin, 'potato' is seen like a heavenly apple of great taste, and as a westerner, I don't consider cooking 'borshch' everyday makes anyone a good cook.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 5:28 p.m.    

You are kidding, right?

Have you ever tried making borshch?

It is a MAJOR undertaking - planning the invasion of Europe is a minor undertaking, compared to making borshch.

Slapping some ground meat on a frying pan or a grill - that's just heart-attack city.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 7:05 p.m.    

Borshtsh is one of the most disgusting things I have ever tasted, comes close to salo or the fat dripping Ukrainian national dish - baked "kartopli " with "cibulka".

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 7:16 p.m.    

Well done Alina. You have provoked thought. To those who complain about 'generalizations' I rremind you of Abraham Lincoln' s comment "The only generalization you can safely make is not to generalize." So, if you pedantics, ( probaly are statiticians, jokers or resticted thinkers,) take it literally not to generalize then what the hell do you ever talk about.? Words, to mention but a few, such a slow, fast, fat, thin, hot, cold, good, bad, ugly, beautiful etc should never be used by you otherwise YOU yourself become what you accuse Alina of. No matter, hypocrisy is not new, thanks to you and many who preceeded, and will no doubt follow you. That includes me , ok. But at least I know not to throw stones so readily at someone who has done what you probably secretly wished you had done...but naturally better, of course.

To you Alina.keep them all stirred up so they dont get time to bore the rest of us to death with their 'exactitudes'.

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Anonymous March 14, 2009, 10:48 p.m.    

Speaking as a foreign man, I wonder if it is true that mostly foreign men read to the Kyiv Post. Could it be that just as many Ukrainian men and woman read the Kyiv Post but but that more foreign men post.

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 12:07 a.m.    

The Ukrainian beauty thing is a but of a Myth. Yes many women are physically attractive that is until they reach 30. The writer touch on this but quickly passed over this fact. I think meeting Ms right in Ukraine is just as hard,if not harder, then meeting Ms right in your home country. Culture,history and past experiences along with Family play a major part. Ukrainian women are also re-known for "Trading Up". They will just as quick choose women else they think can provide them a better opportunity. Hey that occures in many societies. But this is the stereo type.Most me who visit Ukraine do so with little to no understanding of Ukrainian/Russian/Culture. They are often men who are socially inept,who under normal circumstances can not form a relationship with a women, yet when they come to Ukraine they are seen as kings.Many come on the dating tour. Sucked in on the Wife hunting propaganda.

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 12:15 a.m.    

Most come for two weeks and some pay a visit once or twice a year. They think they know Ukraine. They only see a slither of Ukraine and most do not understand Ukraine at all. When I first came to Ukraine I was told that the best way to understand Ukraine was to not to understand it at all. This is true and the same goes for Ukrainian women. Ukrainian Women love love. They love the Cinderalla fairytale. There is something called a slavic soul which many foreign men do not understand, Western men who have money and can afford the many trips to Ukraine to find a wife never really get to know Ukraine. All they see is the night clubs and women shoing adoring smiles and affection as they have a night out. The "Good" women will not except a meal on the first date, those that do are either on the con or taking advantage of the situation. The other stereo type is if they are not having sex with you on the third date they are not interested in you. Move on. Red flags are a danger zone.

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 12:23 a.m.    

if your Joe the plumber and you live in a small town do you think you would appeal to a women who is well educated and lives in a big city?

Ukrainian women run Ukraine, they look after the family, they run the shops, bazzars and hospitals even the country. They have a hard life and there window of beauty and opportunity is limited. Come 30 the looks begin to disappear.

The other main social difference with the west is children. Ukrainian/Russians have children at a very young age. Must younger then in the west. This has its good side and its down side. Economics play a big role in one life when you have a child to support.Ukrainians society relies on the "Family" the grand mother loos after the child and the parents work to ring in income. A mother whose parents have no money and who rely on their children for support in older age is living under a different reality then a young person in the west.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 4:11 p.m.    

I see all these men saying that after 30, the Ukrainian women's looks begin to disappear. I can also say that, come 30, EVERY woman's looks begin to disappear. You make it seem like Ukrainian women are different, when in fact, they're exactly like every other woman on Earth.

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 12:30 a.m.    

More often then not the pressure to marry and have children at a young age goes wrong. The man for what ever reason walks out on the mother and child or can no longer provide the fulfillment of a stable emotional relationship. Often the family of the man sadly shows little interest in the needs of the mother and child. This shocked me once when I was told that the parents of the Father who abandoned his wife and child showed no interest in the child. yes I am sure this is not always the case but it was a common occurance in many of the families I had met. So a Ukrainian Woman has endured much and they are willing to marriage and sex for love. if you are sincere and you win the heart and soul of a Ukrainian women then yes they will and do make good wives. You need to learn not to understand them in order to understand the Russian/Ukrainian/Slavic soul, If you can see that then you will fall in love. They make great mothers and caring partners. But love they their soul not the beauty

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 10:28 a.m.    

' I just think one of the main reasons Ukrainian women are called prostitutes and are denied visas when they want to go abroad is simple jealousy. Women are jealous because they are afraid that Slavic smart beauties will steal their best men. And some men are jealous because they try to get such a smart and beautiful girl but get rejected.'

This is quite funny.So you mean that immigration officers consist of either women who are afraid of the UW steeling her man or men who went to Ukraine and were rejected? Common are you for real? So why do Ukrainian men get rejected for visas? is it because men in West are afraid that they will still their women? Or what about women from say India or Pakistan? Why do they have problems getting visas?

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 10:46 a.m.    

Perfect! You hit it right on the head, my friend!

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 10:30 a.m.    

I have been to Ukraine many times, my main purpose was charity and educational work but I did date Ukrainian women in my visits. I don't agree with the misconception that men come to Ukraine because the women are more beautiful then their homeland.

They go their because beautiful and younger women who will not be available to them in their homeland and available in Ukraine. I know several men who have married UW and without fail the women are years younger then them (15-25 years age gaps).

BTW the same goes for Russia only that Ukraine is easier due to no visa.

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 7:33 p.m.    

SIGN!

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Anonymous March 15, 2009, 10:10 p.m.    

I refuse to rest until the Ukranian people demand the freedom and respect they deserve from their political leaders, from the west and from Russia. I also will demand Ukranian woman be given the same freedom and respect they deserve with in Ukraine. I will accept nothing less. Ukranian woman are human beings entitled to dignity and equality that make up basic human rights. Ukranian woman hold more power than they know. They just have been taught not to voice their demands. Any man who allows Ukranian woman to be subjected to such living conditions can hardly claim to be anytrhing more than a caveman.

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Anonymous March 16, 2009, 2:03 a.m.    

Question to editors of Kyiv Post:

Why were most of the comments to this article deleted? Is it to encourage new readers to add their own comments to a supposedly 'new' or 'overlooked' article?

Great article -- very satirical and ironic.

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Anonymous March 16, 2009, 2:19 a.m.    

I noticed, in quickly checking back on my comment, that most of the comments were restored.=)

The comedy of these satirical articles by Alina Rudya, with her handling of the comments, is some of the best written entertainment on the Internet right now.

If this is a strategy to boost bloghits to the Kyiv Post, it is tremendously clever. Both Alina Rudya and the editors deserve plaudits. Once your readers figure out what is going on here, I'll bet it will increase their interest in the Kyiv Post, because readers admire clever writers. Congratulations.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 9:48 p.m.    

There's more comedy here than you can imagine, friend.

Comments that criticize are liquidated; while undeserved plaudits stand.

On the upside, it may be that the criticisms, many wittier and better structured than the articles themselves, are currently being dismantled in KP offices -- and aphorisms are being, point by point by ball-point even, painstakingly reverse-engineered.

By now, it may even have been discovered that writing is more than intuition. It is work.

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Anonymous March 16, 2009, 7:57 a.m.    

as a vistor in the past to Kyiv and my beloved Ukrainia. The women of Ukraina are for the most part jewels. They are kind, loving, family orientated and want to be women unlike many of the 20-30 years old in Amerika, UK and europe. The slavic women are a class above the rest. That is why after 4 generations apart from Ukraina, I brought my self back to my historic land of Ukraina and found family, love and happiness.

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Anonymous March 16, 2009, 3:52 p.m.    

Dear Alina,

The women in Ukraine are nice, of course. There is much more to your country than this obsession of who is the best women, etc. The real reason men go to Ukraine to find a wife is to bring back a bit of Ukraine to wherever they hail from. Tell them to just stay awhile. The weak will leave like their "Slavic men" counterparts who abandon their responsibilities. The strong will remain like those of the past.

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Anonymous March 16, 2009, 7:08 p.m.    

Isn t life wonderful ?

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Anonymous March 16, 2009, 11:16 p.m.    

Good articles Alina, although slightly biased I would say. How about writing an article about those older women that are "vrednaja" (seems that all women over 50 are like that)? Would be interesting to know your opinion/theories about them

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 12:21 a.m.    

The Divorce rate in Ukraine,is the Same as in the U.K. and perhaps the USA.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 12:32 p.m.    

You CANT be serious!

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 10:35 a.m.    

I have read both articles and big part of comments so just can say it’s something ridiculous

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 10:35 a.m.    

Alina doesn’t know real life and makes the global conclusions on the base of small details.

Alina, I’m really sorry about your experience. You have told us about men and women never use to word “love.” You say about Soviet era and you are near 24 (even no make up). Dear girl, don’t use this kind of approach in you personal life. Believe me, better way exists just try to find it. Everything what you say has opposite side, but you left it under shadow. Don’t worry about editor, paper, readers, prostitution and smoking guys everybody will get what he has to get. Save you love or find it. Even one happy Alina, is better then millions “typical” nuclear physic PhD in short skirts.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 4:01 p.m.    

Somewhat primitive but not a totally wasted read. The sad thing is that these Ukrainian and Russian girls who go to Western countries don't seem to be able to broaden their minds or learn anything from the experience.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 4:06 p.m.    

As a single American male, i would not make the blanket statement that Ukrainian women are better than American women, but i have to admit that i meet more attractive women here who i feel comfortable with than i do back at home.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 8:22 p.m.    

i would like to thank the writer for her g8 opinion about ukranian women!i had a very caring,smart &ofcoarse beutiful ukranian girlfriend,whom i respect a lot.i fully agree with the writer but one.i believe this country needs more women like ANGELA MERKEL than ANGELINA JOLIE, to bring selfrespect,prosperity & good name for themselves around the world!!!Ukranian women(NOT ALL) r themselves to blame 4 their bad image.they want to be rich in very short time,that"s why they go searching 4 rich people without thinking that the same rich man has the capacity of buying more girls better than the earlier one,& this is the reason most of the girls find themselves in situation of becoming a prostitute!!!sorry to write such things,but this is the fact!!I respect all women & more so ukranian,that's why i feel very bad to hear such derogatory remarks about ukranian women.but they really have to change themselves,so that whole world look at them with due respect & dignity.

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Anonymous March 17, 2009, 10:48 p.m.    

This was by far the worst piece of journalism crafted on earth. Speaking as a women foreigner from the West who lives in Kyiv, I find this piece an insult to my intelligence. It was an incoherent stream of unconsciousness, which does not translate well into English. I cannot relate or even begin to understand the author's point for writing such an article. It is clear that she has no global understanding of the women's movement and how it afforded many women with educational opportunities to choose how they live their lives. Here it seems that women cannot appreciate the achievement of others who can and do succeed in their goals, without disparaging them. This author's article proves the point that there is a great need for women to raise the bar and challenge such people to take responsibility for improving their own lives without concern for what others think of them. Then perhaps, there will be a chance for the author to liberate herself from such inconsequential views.

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Anonymous March 19, 2009, 10:15 p.m.    

Now you know why men from the west go east to find a mate, consider this "female" from the west's point of view. So tired of loud, self-opinionated, overweight, over-valued, man hating, money hungry, women from the west. If there were not so many women from Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Russia here already, I'd be on the next flight to there. Btw, Western Women are the best housekeepers, they get married and keep the house......

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Anonymous March 28, 2009, 10:26 a.m.    

how right you are. alina herself is a well decorated girl but no beauty and ignorant to history.

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Anonymous March 18, 2009, 12:42 a.m.    

I had to laugh at the pissy reply from some western woman living in Kiev. What in God's name is a woman like that doing in Ukraine to start with? She's there with a chip on her shoulder that sticks out a mile high. :-)))))) That woman is a typical reason why western men look east for a good wife and not an adversary. Women's rights in the west is a bit of a joke. They are supposed to be equally paid for equal work even in a man's world but physically they can't handle it but still manage to get the same wage.

Alina's article made me laugh a dozen times. :-)

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Anonymous March 18, 2009, 9:14 a.m.    

Article is well intended.....a touch patronizing and somewhat clapped up together.

As a foreigner who works and live in Ukraine but not only in Kiev and who has had a good chance to understand Ukraine mentality and who is about to marry Ukraine lady, after two years of lovely relationship... the writer does not come up as a familiar profile.

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Anonymous March 18, 2009, 3:34 p.m.    

I appreciate the effort put in by the author.......

But men live by this quote...

Girls will always be girls...

Girls in Ukraine, or girls in India.....

But I detest what Alina has written towards the end of her story about Slavic females being denied visas because of 'Jealousy' ..I think she is speaking like a typical kid out here...

One thing that Ukrainian girls will never understand is that beauty is not everything.....

And she further goes on to say that foreigners come to Ukraine just for plain lust and Ukrainian girls hope that they will get serious one day..

Give me a break Alina !!

Don't try to portray your girls as saints...I know many a foreigner who became serious with Ukrainian girls only to end being dumped like a piece of trash after being ripped out of our wallets....(Including me)

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Anonymous March 18, 2009, 5:14 p.m.    

iIAs a diasporan Ukrainian I have met many a Ukrainian girl and they are easily up there with the best. Ukrainian women undersell their intelligence and formidable strengths but some do have the worst a terrible Soviet Russian dress sense and a village type attitude. Unfortunately if mothers stopped setting a bad example to their daughters by pandering to their husbands, Ukrainian women would earn more respect.

Would you say Tymoshenko's daughter, clearly an intelligent woman for studying at the London School of Economics, has shown her intelligence by marrying an un-educated market trader? What does her marriage to this man tell their world. In the west people were dumbfounded someone so intelligent could have been so stupid. Such an example does not help the Ukrainian woman's cause.

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Anonymous March 18, 2009, 5:51 p.m.    

This was a good article about women just as the last article about Ukraine men was also interesting. The point about about feminists is also mostly true, in my opinion.

Actually, in my experience, alot of the USA (California) women I have met as potential girl-friends had bought into the whole 50-50 feminist propaganda. I had to set them straight that they were women and I was a man so of course, there is no 50-50 and the ones who understood this had a relationship with me the others, they went off on their own.

I'm talking about relationships here, the work-place is different although, to be honest, I would rather have a male boss than a woman, unless she is elderly. Once again, good article.

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Anonymous March 19, 2009, 5:23 a.m.    

Alina, I see you are very smart and have many abilities. You are knowledgeable and win all grants and stipends. I have an issue. All my socks have holes and nobody wants to mend them… It would be really cool to get together and to mend my socks… We would discuss your opinions and male opinions and will not waste time, but mend all socks! This is my dream: Alina, mending socks obediently… and, probably, becoming a charming and traditional woman. Are you writing such feminist articles because you are just in search of a strong man whose socks you will be mending without complaints and scandals?

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Anonymous March 19, 2009, 9:27 p.m.    

Alina,

You have spoken well in your article and I agree with your assessments. I am an American living in

Virginia Beach, Va. and we have a lot of Eastern European (particularly Ukanian and Russian) women here. I find such women very intelligent, multifaceted, very attractive, and (initially) very shy. I don't see them running around town trying to get laid (by and large). A lot of American women get some what jealous or more over "envious" and want to have something detremental to say. Most of my male friends are looking for Eastern European women to the extent of being sick of the head strong, everybody look at me, stage package, "what have you done for me lately" American women. Of course, as in all things, not all American women are like that. But enough to have earned this vantage point shared by a lot of American guys! I have a profile on Natasha Club.com if you want to know a little more about me and open up a friendly dialogue!

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Anonymous March 21, 2009, 12:44 a.m.    

Comment by Maxim proves the author`s point the best. I wouldn`t go for a man who asks to mend his socks. First, he is poor, second, he has a bad attitude. I agree with Alina on one point. Ukrainian women do not marry US or European men for money. As Ukrainian, married to American, I can speak from my own experience. I earn almost as much money as my husband does with better job security and he is not the richest guy I have ever dated. But I found the qualities, which are hard to come across in Ukrainian men: he is caring, devoted, responsible, treats me with respect and doesn`t take anything for granted. Also, we share housework and care for our son. When my baby was just days old, I often wondered how I would have been doing if I were married to Ukrainian - having no sleep and no help. I am happy that I didn`t have to test it. On one point I disagree. Alina talks about Western feminists with disdain. Before I moved to the USA, I also imagined feminists as ugly, crazy, men-hati

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Anonymous June 17, 2010, 5:33 p.m.    

&quot;I earn almost as much money as my husband does with better job security&quot; - The arrogance, competition and superiority undertones of this one statement says it all. Haven't we all heard this before? And how this scumbag looks down on her husband. Almost as if she pity's him. But most of these maggots are the same. They look down on men. That is what it is all about. Nazis looked down on others too. But if you study the structure of feminism you learn of the striking similarities between it and nazism. The core of it is and always will be a hatred of men and masculinity. These women are vermin and a threat to humanity.

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Anonymous March 30, 2011, 3:44 p.m.    

@ the Guest:

Get a psychiatrist, man. You sound bitter and dangerously threatening to all of the womankind. If you don't like women, don't date them - get yourself a guy.

----------------------------------------------------------------

HELP STOP SEX TOURISM! It's a slavery in disguise

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Anonymous March 21, 2009, 2:43 a.m.    

Continued:

On one point I disagree. Alina talks about Western feminists with disdain. Before I moved to the USA, I also imagined feminists as ugly, crazy, men-hating lesbians. Just the way, the interested party portrays them. They are not. They are the women who made it possible for me and many women across the United States and Europe to enjoy equal pay for equal work and respect from men in professional and private life.

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Anonymous June 17, 2010, 5:26 p.m.    

Whatever..

All at the expense of men right?

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Anonymous March 21, 2009, 12:50 p.m.    

I was married already to 8 Ukrainian women and always after 3 Months approximatley, I had to divorce. Why? They robbed all my money.

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Anonymous March 22, 2009, 8:51 a.m.    

So I am a Ukrainian girl working abroad...don't really fit in your descriptions. While I see the roots for some of your arguments and have to agree with some observations, frankly both articles (about men and women) seem very superficial and not too deep, to put mildly, quite upsetting too. Why are you concentrating so much on the appearance? Don't you see anything else aside of this? You have to get used to your own and others' good appearance and move beyond it...otherwise you just strengthen typical stereotypes and do not move anywhere deeper.

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Anonymous March 22, 2009, 9:22 p.m.    

Well, Ukrainian girl, do you shave your pussy?

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Anonymous March 23, 2009, 1:27 p.m.    

Are you Married, "Ukrainian Girl abroad"?

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Anonymous March 23, 2009, 10:03 p.m.    

Lars, I feel bad for you, but 8 marriges and 8 rip-offs? may be it says something about you not about Ukrainian women? Could it be that you go for those untrustworthy personalities?

One good advice for a foreigner looking for Slavic girls. If you are not working in Ukraine, and don`t have much time to learn about your possible spouse, then the best way to find a good Ukrainian/Russian girl/woman is to look among ones who is already in your country. They would not go out with you because they want to get out of Ukraine, they are already out. Look at Universities, professionals and friends of the friends :-). Unfortunatly, those girls could be too smart and too pretty for you :-). As far as I know Tatiana (look below) and me met our American husbands being already in USA, studing.

To Mark. It is my 8th year I am living in US, and I tell you there are plenty of nice American girls. I really didn`t like then American guys, trying to pick me up, were saying bad things about American w

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Anonymous March 23, 2009, 10:03 p.m.    

To Mark. It is my 8th year I am living in US, and I tell you there are plenty of nice American girls. I really didn`t like then American guys, trying to pick me up, were saying bad things about American women. Those guys were mostly losers :-).

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Anonymous March 24, 2009, 6:45 p.m.    

Why no mention of education or career choices for Ukrainian women? All this talk about men, marriage, and makeup shows author's poor understanding of real issues.

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Anonymous March 28, 2009, 10:20 a.m.    

you are absolutely right. better invest in your education than in make up. it enriches only the producers and the sellers. training your brain and fighting for a good position in life is the best insurance for a woman for a lifetime. A man is a risk to depend on for lifetime woman are an entertainment and exchangeable like a furniture.

I am sure it will come. history showed it in other countries as well.

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Anonymous March 30, 2011, 3:26 p.m.    

Haha, you're funny, because you are thinking in Western terms. Now, let's get down to earth. Most Ukrainian women over 25 have a college degree and about a half has an advanced degree (Master's, MD, JD) because education is heavily subsidized by the state. Well, guess what, it doesn't get you ANY &quot;insurance&quot;, as you call it. It takes about a year to find a new job (with degree) and about 2 minutes to get fired from it. The typical reasons to get fired may include, but not limited to the following:

-your boss's nephew just graduated and needs a &quot;warm place&quot; (Ukrainian slang for corporate nepotism)

-someone comes around and offers to do your job for half the salary because market sucks since 1991 and they can't get anything better

-a big client complains to your boss about you because you didn't give him your cell phone number

-your boss suddenly feels that the department would be more productive (read: more fun to drink together at corporate events) if there were only guys working in it from now on.

I have a Master's in Law, 4.0 GPA from top Ukrainian Uni, foreign internships, etc, and I had to work at restaurants waiting tables or cleaning offices in between the &quot;real&quot; jobs a million times because of those ridiculous reasons.

It's not like there's an ombudsman or court in place to help you with those issues, they'd just laugh at you. Once a higher authority actually did, so I gave up on the whole thing.

I can go on forever... or I can get married to a stable guy and create a safety net for my kids in the future. Sorry, but the last one sounds more like an insurance to me. Don't judge.

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Anonymous March 28, 2009, 9:36 a.m.    

alina is writing she does not know any beautiful feminists? Why? The feminists who were fighting for rights in germany are in the sixties now and still beautiful slim women, many of them having also husbands. Does she know why feminism and emancipation develop in europe in the states? What is so good to be depended on a husband who day leaves who and your kids. The new laws due not support ex-wifess anymore for a lifetime. It's difficult to find a job over 40. Is it so attractive to cook and clean for an and to serve his sexual needs. for these puposes a cleaning person could serve.

many men coming here want to have the fast uncomplicate sex. Why women in the west now can choose with whom they want to have sex or not.

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Anonymous March 28, 2009, 9:46 a.m.    

before emancipation feminism started women had hardly any rights. they had to ask the husband's allowance to work, they could not open their own bank account. they were used as service women for all kinds of services. when they were divorced even their inheritage was given to the men. Only since 110 years women are allowed to study at universities. in ukraine women had always to work - now they dream about a husband taking care of for ever - it is a dream. why should a man pay a life for the services of a woman? he can cook himself, clean and wash there is nothing wrong with it. to be in couple also means to give support to each to raise children together not to depend on each other.

Ok ukrainian women are beautiful when they are young and good for reproduction they are aging terrible become fat, invisible and alone.

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Anonymous March 28, 2009, 10:05 a.m.    

It is well-known that the average Ukrainian woman has the luck of being prettier than the average German, for example.

Did you ever hear about -das deutsche fraeulein wunder- they were for times very popular.

if you style most of german girls in way the ukrainians they are beautiful and attractive. They even have husbands without styling - and I doubt that they fear ukrainian girls.

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Anonymous March 28, 2009, 10:13 a.m.    

well, you probably know why guys dream of Angelina Jolie and not Angela Merkel at night,

Such sentence from a woman is just disgusting. Angela Merkel has by the way a very handsome and successful husband.

May be they might dream about her beauty - but they will dream to have her power!!!!

Beauty is a gift but one receives and the other get used to it and do not see any more like your ukrainian men.

the western girls are not afraid to lose their best men - as only very often losers like a read below come here to hunt for an easy girls.

in the west we had a lot of various women coming from developing countries in fashion - now it is the turn for the slavic type.

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Anonymous April 7, 2009, 8:43 p.m.    

If Ukrainian women are so kind and caring why are there so many children in the orphanage whose mothers are too drunk to care for them properly? Or children who remain in the homes with their "caring" mothers who shove them to the streets to beg or prostitute for rent money.

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Anonymous April 7, 2009, 8:46 p.m.    

Say anything negative and it is deleted.

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Anonymous April 14, 2009, 8:04 p.m.    

I am not complaining at all, and Alina is right !

As a lucky foreigner married since 15 years, I can confirm : Ukrainian women are the best !

As a doctor, I can say they are strong and support the pain more than the majority of western women !

As a man living in Ukraine, I can say : These diamonds would have rest in Ukraine and not go abroad, except to give the example and come back !

As a foreigner seeing the attitude of some expats or others traveling in Ukraine for sex tours, I prefer to say I am not proud of them. They are pigs !

Keep this grace and this mind, and Ukraine will be saved from mediocrity by women.

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Anonymous April 14, 2009, 11:27 p.m.    

Great article!

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Anonymous April 17, 2009, 12:25 p.m.    

To pani Alina and all those who shares the spirit of this and similar articles.

Understand one thing: we, men & women of Ukraine, are the best people ukrainian land has here and now.

Because all the others simply did not survive here or weathered all the hard times of past centuries.

If you want us to be like Americans - then at first dig two oceans to separate us from Eastern and Western neighbors and do not invade us for 150 years.

If you want us to be like Europeans - then give us 600 years of colonial growth without massive invasions from the East.

We are as we are, here and now. And our children will be even better than us, hopefully in Ukraine.

Bottomline:

LOVE UKRAINE OR GET OUT OF HERE

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Anonymous April 17, 2009, 12:30 p.m.    

vera9998(ear)gmail(dot)com

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Anonymous April 22, 2009, 12:25 p.m.    

Why only in Ukraine, Russia it is so normal that a 25 year old girl had already minimum 2 marriage and a child?!?!I

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Anonymous Nov. 3, 2009, 9:01 a.m.    

hi,i didnt read the other part of this column but it really interesting that women with heels and short skirt alway been judge as a whore,but it tells me how ignorance some people are.charity begin at home.polite is something your parent will teach you.i wanna say something about we american,we are good people like every other nation but you'll alway find dick heads who like to be disrespectful to women.some men are so disrespect.ok i live in los angeles women out here are good and bad trust me.LA WOMEN ARE POWERFUL IN A BAD WAY .

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Anonymous Dec. 28, 2009, 2:17 a.m.    

Maybe when you are younger the situation is like that. Having hit my 30s a few years back i avoid anybody who thinks like this. Its too stiltifying.

There's really no need for people to get upset over whether the world is so superficial. They should just do what I do when they occassionally feel the desire to have sex with a good looking woman. Go to a prostitute.

Why spend your life chasing after a good looking lady and all the monetary expense required to impress/keep her, when for $200 an hour you get have sex with a different beuatiful girl each month?

There is nothing wrong with prostitution. Not in my moral book anyhow, they're people just like the rest of us.

Second, I went to Ukraine once and didn't see that many attractive girls (Odessa). If you go to the main street of any capital city you are bound to see good looking woman. Its where they congregate. NY city would probably crap all over the main street of Kiev.

I think the author maybe needs to realise Ukraine woman aren't actually as hot as their reputation makes out.

Finally, woman can chase the money and men can chase the pussy. Or we can each decide to control the fate of our own lives and become educated and wealthy (if you're a woman) or just pay for pussy by the hour (if you're a man).

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Rudolf de Jong April 2, 2010, 3:16 p.m.    

I am with my Ukraine girlfriend for 5 years now and she still amazes me.

Painting eggs with my daughters for Easter and taking care of my family if it is her own.

Maybe i have been lucky.

Before I have been dating a few Ukraine ladies, I never found them cheap or easy with sex, I do not recognise this picture at all.

I have learned Ukraine woman as independent, caring, commited and beautiful.

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Anonymous April 29, 2010, 5:10 p.m.    

Well I would like to thank you for this write, you can ask why :) I am talking to one of the beautiful Ukrainian Lady right now.

Yes most of the people thinks that all Ukrainian women are Prostitute yes I know it’s also makes me upset too.

My ex girlfriend was from Romania and after 6 years we broke up... When she came to visit me to Turkey I had many problems, people were asking me many dirty things and trying to learn everything … I wanna tell you one of my story with my ex girlfriend;

One day me and my ex, we were walking on the street in Turkey and 3 guy were following us, I got worried but finally one of them came to me and ask me how much is she? I mean her price??!!!!!! They think I am selling her and she is a Prostitute …..When he asked me that question that was the time how I lost my control and beat him. J Not only this even police made problem… they came to my home ask me that do I keep Prostitute at my home!!! I was shock she was very upset …

Why I am telling you all these... Please know that, not all men are the same.

And why I am looking foreigner woman to marry? I am tired of uneducated women I want real woman to be with and create my own family.

Thanks,

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Anonymous Oct. 3, 2011, 4:50 p.m.    

Wow . Being a Ukrainian woman myself I have to say your article is not accurate at all. It seems to just be stroking your ego as an emancipated , non-makeup wearing career woman that you are. You just sound bitter and that picture looks like a mug shot.

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Kamel Rafla March 29, 2012, 1:52 p.m.    

Dear Alina,

I JUST LOVED your Article, I Agree with almost Every word, I'm Egyptian, I Can Understand the Logic behind the social factors that helped shaping Slavic Women we see nowadays...

As a Rich 27 Years old, from a Rich Upper-class family, i can count how numerous Egyptian Girls wanted me, just because i have the money, the looks and still caring, but Egyptian Girls compared to Ukrainian in specific or Slavic in General are PHARAOHS, as u said, what every girl wishes for, a slavic has already given, girls and women who cannot be compared to the ugliest slavic, still gives so much less &amp; takes for granted &amp; always want more, &amp; This is why I wanna get married &quot;if i ever will&quot; to a Slavic Girl... I joined a website, called UALADYS, it's a dating website for russians, ukrainians, &amp; To my amazement, how these girls look and what they say about themselves, &amp; what they say to me is too good to be true... again i'll say it TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.. when a Beauty Queen tells me that if I would love her, she would sell her world for me &amp; not want anything more in life.. i find there is something wrong with the world !! I'm Planning to go to Ukraine to see for myself, my fears are, how many Sexual Partners in Average, does a good looking, poor Ukrainian Girl has in a lifetime, the average in America is 15, he Average in Egypt is 4 !!! &amp; well, Russian &amp; Ukrainian Girls are not easy for sex, However, Both are Ranked among the top 10 Countries in Hypersexuality, After Brazil, China, Italy &amp; Swtizerland

Anyways, I would be Glad if someone would tell me about UALADYS.com if It's worth it or not.. and Alina, Thank you again for the Amazing Article, I love your sarcasm...

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